OLD Motor to Run my Line Shaft

I found an old motor, that hopefully can be made operational to run my line shaft. It's of the period and It's a pretty neat piece I think. A Westinghouse Electric Type AR 5HP single phase constant speed. 1725 RPM, 460 Frame, 515 pounds with the base. The thing is massive for a 5HP. Rated for continuous use at 5HP with a 40 degrees C temp rise max. Runs pretty cool with all that mass. Bearings seem fine, spins smooth and seems tight. Will need to check the brushes and clean the commutator. I'm tempted to just wire it up but probably best to clean it first. So this will be another project to add to the list.






nice brass end cap


Two dates on the bottom of the tag both 1912. not sure if these are patent dates or if one is a date of manufacture.

No Chinese ponies locked up in there. That’s the real deal.

Its a induction repulsion type, clean the comm and brushes before you try to run it, a bad shorting ring is a real possibility, better yet do a complete rebuild first.It has sleeve bearing with a oil ring, clean them up good with new oil...to fit the oil ring you put the end bells on upside down, slide them on and turn the bells right side up...Phil

WAY cool! [I have a soft spot for antique motors] Do keep us posted on it's resurrection!

look anything like this? this powered a lineshaft here in Brooklyn from the 1920s;

Very similar to my 885 RPM 10 HP 3 phase - including the ring oiled plain bearings - flip open that curved cover and you can see if the ring is bringing up nice clean oil from the chamber below the journal

Here is what the bearings look like - long ago you could buy them from Westinghouse and just put them in - assuming journals were still on size

Precision ground cast iron shell - with Babbitt lining



"slot" is where the oiling ring goes

dundeeshopnut said:

WAY cool! [I have a soft spot for antique motors] Do keep us posted on it's resurrection!

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Thanks Dundeeshopnut! Yeah I think its cool too. Will do on updating progress, may be a couple months til I get around to it.

johnoder said:

Very similar to my 885 RPM 10 HP 3 phase - including the ring oiled plain bearings - flip open that curved cover and you can see if the ring is bringing up nice clean oil from the chamber below the journal

Here is what the bearings look like - long ago you could buy them from Westinghouse and just put them in - assuming journals were still on size

Precision ground cast iron shell - with Babbitt lining

View attachment 309827View attachment 309828

"slot" is where the oiling ring goes

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Thanks for the info and the pics of the bearings John. I was curious about the bearings. I dig the little spring loaded swing arm covers. Your 10hp motor sounds awesome, especially since it turns at a low rpm. I have a 40 inch pulley to slow things down from the 1725 of this motor.

JK in PA said:

Thanks for the info and the pics of the bearings John. I was curious about the bearings. I dig the little spring loaded swing arm covers. Your 10hp motor sounds awesome, especially since it turns at a low rpm. I have a 40 inch pulley to slow things down from the 1725 of this motor.

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Too bad no matter how you hook up the megger it says those 72 coils are BAD Its still 500 lbs with the rotor shaft out and the end bells off, but it could sure use a baking

Phil in Montana said:

Its a induction repulsion type, clean the comm and brushes before you try to run it, a bad shorting ring is a real possibility, better yet do a complete rebuild first.It has sleeve bearing with a oil ring, clean them up good with new oil...to fit the oil ring you put the end bells on upside down, slide them on and turn the bells right side up...Phil

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Speaking of Repulsion-Start / Induction motors, I have one on my Hendey Norton No. 2 Universal mill (about 1920). It is the only one I have seen. The internet told me that during the initial start in repulsion mode there would be enough electrical noise to scramble nearby digital logic, so I assumed that the blue arcing must be normal, and it works great. But your statement seems to indicate that I should be cleaning brushes...

Its a good noise generator, the shorting ring in side the comm is what goes bad most of the time...Phil

Phil in Montana said:

Its a good noise generator, the shorting ring in side the comm is what goes bad most of the time...Phil

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So just how bright should the blue flashes get before it is time for repair?

Hard to say after 50 years you just know...fire should not run all the way around the comm and only last in the starting cycle, most of the time the blue is a small arch about 1/16 or so and not very bright. If the fire is there all the time while running the shorting ring is not working if it is a r/p motor...now if it is a universal motor the blue will be there all the time...Phil

Phil in Montana said:

Hard to say after 50 years you just know...fire should not run all the way around the comm and only last in the starting cycle, most of the time the blue is a small arch about 1/16 or so and not very bright. If the fire is there all the time while running the shorting ring is not working if it is a r/p motor...now if it is a universal motor the blue will be there all the time...Phil

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The fire is only on startup, at each of the 4 brushes. Fire on three of them is about 1/4", and one is a bit worse at 1/2"

Clean the comm with the purple scotch brite, and make sure the brushes float in the holders and all will be well...Phil

Phil in Montana said:

Clean the comm with the purple scotch brite, and make sure the brushes float in the holders and all will be well...Phil

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I will do so tomorrow!

This is normal arcing for a repulsion start induction motor:
https://youtu.be/GjY6SGd7_lI?t=90
https://youtu.be/RVrr5SdH6sA?t=10
https://youtu.be/Jjoop5R1g-I?t=54

This is excessive arcing which is causing progressive damage to the commutator with every start:
https://youtu.be/fK3dfe0lUrE?t=47
https://youtu.be/HAEQngadPLc?t=156
https://youtu.be/aJCKyw4gCR8?t=15
The only way to reverse the damage caused by this sort of arcing once it gets beyond a certain point is to re-machine the commutator.


+1 on a preventative rebuild. It's always a good idea to clean out and dress the commutator on these motors when you rescue them. Remember that copper is very soft - you only want to remove the surface carbon deposits and oxides without changing the base metal geometry unless you are going to the length of skimming it and re-cutting the mica. Any disturbance in the surface uniformity is an opportunity for arcing to concentrate and cause damage. Copper commutators oxidize over time with lack of use, carbon tracking builds up between the commutator segments and contributes to arcing, the brushes wear out, lifters stick, commutator profile wears down, insulation degrades, etc, etc. Plug it in and test a it a couple times if it ohms out to see where your trouble spots are, but definitely give it some TLC before placing it in permanent service.

Also worth checking the brush carriage position. Many times people fiddle with it for some reason and leave the motor with either too little starting torque or too much starting current. The brush position should always be set at the factory marks as those are the points at which the motor will develop peak starting torque and draw moderate starting current. Too close to the center between them is hard neutral which will produce no torque and burn up the motor. Too far to the extremes gets close to the soft neutral points where the motor draws no current and again produces no torque.

Definitely interested in hearing what this one sounds like once you get it running.

Great nuggets of information, thanks very much!!

Have you gotten any closer to giving her "defibrillation" yet? I'm running low on popcorn! LOL

dundeeshopnut said:

Have you gotten any closer to giving her "defibrillation" yet? I'm running low on popcorn! LOL

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Ha ha !! Good one ! Not yet. I decided I should take her apart and clean and check the insulation and brushes and commutator. The commutator in particular looks pretty rough. But I did not start tearing into it yet. I was distracted with some house projects and most importantly I ran across a camel back drill press I had to pick up and get home. 20 inch Champion. So I have a good excuse for not starting the tear down yet. Ha ha.