Oliver HD Heavy Die Filer

Hi guys;

I thought you'd enjoy seeing this neat machine that I picked up last year and recently got cleaned up and running. It's from 1963, so it's not really an antique yet, but the whole design is so interesting and reminiscent of old machinery.

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It's made by Oliver Instrument Co. aka Oliver of Adrian, not to be confused with Oliver, who makes all the nice woodworking machinery. Both companies are still around today. I talked to the folks at Oliver Instrument, and they were able to trace the serial number and tell me more about it. This machine was made in 1963 and originally sold to a trade school in Ohio. The model HD Heavy Die Filer was made for about ten years, and then was replaced by an improved model, which was made for another ten years.

It's really a vertical power hacksaw, with a reciprocating frame that slides in a classic crosshead design bearing group. The jaws of the frame are offset and have a wide adjustment range, so almost anything can be clamped between them and tensioned. In the pictures, I've got a standard 12" hacksaw blade in there, which works great for sawing aluminum plates. It can also be set up to handle pieces of bandsaw blade, coping saw blades, and files up to about 3/4" dia. The distance between the jaws is adjustable, and the upper arm releases and swings up to place a workpiece over the blade.

The stroke is also inifinitely adjustable from 0 to about 6". The bottom end of the connecting rod slides in a T-slot in the face of the back end of the main shaft. There's a worm drive gearbox down in the base which reduces the drive from the motor pulley and spins the accessories. The pedal on the lower right is a clutch, which disconnects the drive and latches down. It works, but it's very stiff and I haven't found it to be particularly useful.

Note the unusual design of the table. It tilts in two axes, but clears the lower arm. The yoke with the curved dovetail way is all one casting. The two heavy swinging hold down arms are very handy. I made up the two aluminum bar feet to fit the type of work I'll mostly be doing on it. Each arm can actually hold two seperate feet and other accessories.

Down on the right side are two built in pumps driven by the gearbox. I haven't cleaned up and reinstalled the copper lines yet. The upper pump pushes air to a shuttle piston under the front edge of the table, which blows chips off the blade. The lower pump apparently is for cutting oil; it has a flex line that attaches to the right hold down arm and aims at the blade.

It took me a while to figure out what the round thing is on the left side under the table. It's a spool for holding a small coil of bandsaw blade stock. You pull out a fresh length through the angled slot and snap it off.

I put a nice old Smith 3/4 HP 1725 motor on there and mounted a drum switch up near the table. I set it up to run fairly slow, about 80 strokes/min, and it cuts beautifully at that speed. I was also pleasantly surprised how quiet it is; all you can hear is the hum of the motor and the cutting of the saw teeth. It's so much smoother and more powerful than my other tabletop-size die filers. It weighs about 800 lbs.

I picked it up on ebay last summer for something like $200 from USA Machinery in City Of Industry. It was covered with grease and grime, but hardly anything was wrong with it. I think it's going to be a very useful machine in my shop, particularly for all the one-off aluminum plate electronics panels that I do.

I've never seen another one of these machines before or since this one showed up. Have any of you seen or used one?

Bruce Johnson

Bruce,

I have exactly the same machine, and I'm not far from you, Woodland Hills. I bought my machine from Rosemead machinery, probably about 10 years ago. Mine's not as clean as yours, it looks like you've put some time into it. I've had a little trouble using mine with good results. It wants to grab the piece and lift it up, then slam it back down. Like yours mine has hold downs to prevent this but they aren't always practical depending on what I'm doing. I've done some band filing on my DoAll with much better results, but really I don't have much call for this type of operation. Also in my opinion that die filer is somewhat dangerous. When mine is running I can see a hundred ways to get your hands or fingers into some reciprocating mechanism with lots of opportunities for smashed body parts. I hope you never have a problem. I had a small All American die filer which somehow seemed safer, maybe just because there was so much less moving mass than with the Oliver. Anyway a very nicely made machine and it looks like you've done alright by it. Congrats.

Alan

I got one off ebay about two years ago ..very similar to yours ..made by Excel UK about 1930's I think.

super quite.......and has its own little pump that blows away the fileings





manual I uploaded for for a later Excel maxchine here

http://www.bbssystem.com/viewtopic.php?t=91

you can attach a magazine containing bandsaw blade ..when each section of blade wears out ..you pull out a new section.

If you have the manual for your machine, get it copied and send it to me please.

all the best...mark

I've had a little trouble using mine with good results. It wants to grab the piece and lift it up,

Click to expand...

daft question ..but do you have the files mounted so that they cut on the downstroke.

all the best..mark

It doesn't matter if the hold-downs are practical, you need to use them anyway.

I have a smaller model, and it lifts the work badly unless the hold down (just one on mine) is used. Those look like they would be worse by far at lifting.

Probably with a big 30 lb die piece there would be less trouble, but most of my work for it is way lighter.

I think I need to forge myself a split-end hold-down that will straddle the file.

I can have a bad day now and then but I did manage to get the files in so that they cut on the downstroke, geesh. I agree with the 30 lb die thinking. Problem is the only projects I find for this machine are more like cutting a clover out of thin stock. Don't happen to have a laser or water jet laying around and don't want to take one or two parts to shop so have used the file.

Alan

Hello Alan, Mark & J;

Oh yes, you really need to use a good solid hold down with a die filer, particularly with a heavy one like this. The other big thing I've learned with this machine is that it runs so much better at a slow speed. At 60-80 strokes/min it's very smooth and manageable and cuts quite quickly. I also have one of the small tabletop Oliver die filers, which runs at about 600 strokes/min on the slowest belt setting. At that speed, it really wants to shake and grab and throw the work. It's uncomfortable and scary to use like that, and as a result I hardly ever use it. Why would they build it that way? Now that I've experienced the big Oliver, I'm going to rework the little one with a compound belt drive to slow it down. I'll bet it's a whole different machine at 80 strokes/min.

What speed is yours set up at, Alan? I've got a 1725 motor with a 2 1/2" pulley. Running on the larger pulley on the gearbox, that works out to about 80 s/m.

It's definitely a dangerous machine in terms of pinch points. I was amazed to hear that it was originally sold to a school! Can you imagine the eyes on the school's insurance agent, looking at it? And how could you ever get OSHA to approve it? I'm sure that's why Oliver stopped making them.

I put some thought into how I made those hold down bars to give me plenty of clearance around that reciprocating upper jaw. I haven't put a lot of time on the machine so far, but these hold downs are a good start. I'll probably make up a few other shapes eventually for other special jobs. Most of the work I'll use it for will be sawing out openings in 1/8" to 1/4" aluminum plate.

Mark, I like that Excel machine. Dare I say that it looks very British in the design! That table is beautiful. I don't have a manual yet; I'm going to try to get one from Oliver.

Now that I've experienced the big Oliver, I'm going to rework the little one with a compound belt drive to slow it down. I'll bet it's a whole different machine at 80 strokes/min.

Click to expand...

Its lots nicer! I did it. At least mine has far less than 600 strokes/min on the slow (only) setting. That would be about a 3:1 reduction in speed, unless yours has a 3450 rpm motor.

Mine had had the motor AND PULLEY tossed by an idiot when the motor croaked..... P.O. told me the story, it came from where he worked, IIRC. The new pulley was going to be $120 from Oliver, so I declined......

But of course, without the long throw of the big one, it's slower by quite a bit at removing metal. But still plenty fast for me, even on 1" thich stock.

Bruce - I have two machines identical to yours. The second one was originally bought for parts, but it was so nice that I have decided to restore it! Mine were made in 1952 and 1953. The drawings for the machine say "1938" on them!

Two comments: First, the thing under the table with the little brass valve is an hydraulic pump that pushes a material holder against the part being cut! The hydraulic line attaches to it. It moves only when the saw/file is on the downstroke! The air pump attaches to the UPPER flex arm to blow chips. My two are not connected either, so I cannot confirm this from experience. Oliver sent all the spare parts for this machine back to the foundry for scrap in early 2005 - just as I sent them a request for parts!! They will still sell you drawings for each of the parts in the machine, however, if you want to restore that function to yours.

Second - That "saw caddy" is pretty neat. Worse than a pinch point, however! You just pull some saw blade from the caddy, loop it around under the table, then grip it top and bottom with the clamps. Do not cut it off from the caddy. Then you saw until the 6" or so of useable blade is dull, loosen the clamps, pull 6" of fresh blade into the cutting area between clamps, then cut off THE TOP PART of the blade that is all used up. This way, you use the ENTIRE blade, not leaving any good unused blade that would otherwise have been in the clamps. Clear as mud?? It is a neat machine! A.T.

Very interesting machines and I must agree that Mark's table is very nice indeed.

Hate to expose my ignorance here, but from the name of the machine "die filer", one would assume that you mounted files instead of saw blades. Is this possible, or just a matter of somewhat ambiguous naming?

Hello A. T.;

Well, it's good to hear that there a few more of these around. So, your two must have been from the beginning of the production run, and mine was near the end. The nice lady at Oliver told me that they only made the HD model for about 10 years, and mine was from 1963.

Do you have the factory manual? I was going to check back with Oliver to see if they still have any. That's a shame about them scrapping all the parts...but I guess there isn't a whole lot of market for them.

Thanks for the clarification about the two pumps. That makes sense about the upper pump being a hydraulic feed. I was wondering what the sliding bar in the table was for. I may put the copper line back on for looks, but I doubt I'll use that feature.

Mine has a steel flex line running from the air pump, which attaches to the end of the right upper
hold down arm, with a small nozzle at the end. Is that the factory setup? I assume that the oil cup on the pump is just for lubricating the pump, right? I've got the line removed right now, and I notice that a small amount of oil spritzes out of the open fitting when the machine runs. That's why I was wondering if it actually was for spraying cutting oil on the blade?

So that's how that "Saw Caddy" is supposed to work. That definitely sounds a little hazardous...an open s-shaped loop of blade, with the teeth forward, flexing around under the table!

DryCreek: Yes, these machines are commonly called Die Filers, but they're made to cut with either saw blades or files. Their main job is working openings in plates. You put in a saw blade to rough cut the opening, then put in a file to clean it up. You can put metal cutting sabre saw blades in the small tabletop Die Filers and use them for rough sawing openings in thin plate. Obviously, these days most openings are just cut with an end mill in a milling machine. But the Die Filers are still useful for precisely filing sharp corners and beveled openings, as in small punch dies.

In my case, I do a lot of special one-off mounting of electronic/audio/video equipment into aluminum panels. It's generally hand layout, saw and file to the scribed lines type of work. This Oliver HD is going to be a real time saver for these jobs.

Bruce Johnson

Bruce -

I do have what they call a manual! It is only a couple of sheets describing the operation of the machine - a sales brochure! However, I do have several sheets of drawings for the machine - one is large and excellent - and a list of parts. With the part numbers, Oliver will sell you the drawings for that part for $1.00 each. If you email me a mailing address, I will send you some copies of what I have. I do have one brochure that Oliver no longer has.

The copper line with the coil in it under the table is for the "part pusher", for lack of a better term. It has the oil in it. Oliver sent me the plans for the missing parts of the pusher that are above the top of the table. I have not decided whether they are worth making yet! It may not be a good design, since none of the machines pictured in Ebay auctions over the past 5 years had the pusher parts above the table still on them!

I did request drawings for the upper saw guide parts, since I intend to use mine primarily as a saw. You probably have the lower saw guide on your machine - it is a very inconspicuous box under the table at the back of the hole.

The steel flex line from the air pump was factory original on both of my machines. Both lines were "sprung" by careless moving by previous owners. I found a good substitute - the flex line between the receiver and the box on a pay telephone!!! Looks nicer since it is chrome plated - HA! I have not found where to BUY one, however. Seriously, however, I plan to repair the original lines, not make any midnight runs with a bolt cutter to harvest some pay phone parts.

As for the "saw caddy", as you face the machine, the slot where the blade exits it is on the far left bottom of the caddy on mine. Yours is on the left upper part of the caddy. The blade, teeth toward the operator, goes down under the caddy and over and up to the bottom, then top, saw clamps. The blade makes a loop - sort of a half-circle - from caddy to bottom clamp, but NOT an "S". A picture in the "instructions" will show the proper placement. It still looks darn dangerous! Get too close, one good snag and your voice will go up a couple of octaves!

My two machines are driven by 3-phase 220 volt motors, and I have true 3-phase from the power company in the garage. However, I have not cleaned up either machine yet and have not sealed the floor where they are ultimately to go, so I have not operated them yet. They have a LARGE oil sump in them, and I want to change the oil and repaint them first. I doubt that anything is worn out on them, since they are way over-designed.

As for what you can mount in them, a 10" saw blade, a parallel machine file, and even a stone can be used. Oliver sent me the plans for a simple holder for a stone - looks interesting as a project. You might want copies of the plans for the upper saw guide since you will be sawing a lot on it.

Finally, I think they are a design from the early 1930's. Some of Oliver's drawings have those dates on them. There were a few improvements in them, one in the pivoting overarm, between your model and my two. Your overarm has two knurled disks that fine-tune the centering of the overarm with respect to the lower clamp, and both of mine have no adjustment here. Other than that, they are the same machine. Enjoy! A.T.

Guys - as a separate post from the above diatribe, it may help prevent snagging and lifting of the work if you lean the saw blade or file a little toward the operator at the top. In other words, if the blade is true vertical, it will drag the work on the upstroke. If it is slanted a little toward the operator at the top, it will tend to cut more on the downstroke and not drag as much on the upstroke. This is NOT a substitute for good, beefy holddowns!!! JTiers is correct!! A.T.

Hello A. T.;

Yes, thank you, I'd appreciate copies of the general operating manual and sales brochures, particularly anything that's not available from Oliver any more.

By the way, do you need any of the round inserts for the table? Mine didn't come with any, so I made up an arbor for my lathe and turned up a small batch of blank inserts out of 1/8" aluminum. They fasten down with two 8-32 flat head screws. I'll be glad save you the trouble of making up your own and send you some in exchange for the copies.

My machine didn't come with either upper or lower saw guides, although I can see the mounting pad for the lower guide under the table. Does the upper guide fit across between the hold down arms, attaching to the two T-bolts? I was wondering what those are for. For now, I've been using Lennox 24T hacksaw blades which seem to work great for most of my aluminum plate cutting. With a little tension on the blade, it doesn't seem to need additional blade guides. The whole reciprocating frame and guides are pretty rigid as they are. But I may sometimes want to use 1/4" bandsaw blade stock, which might need the guides. Are they roller guides, or just a block with a slot?

Yes, the flex line for the air pump is sprung on mine too, as well as being saturated with grime. I'll check around for a source for that flex line; McMasters might have it. I've seen it used a lot in solvent tanks and process lines.

I don't know if I'll use the saw caddy or not. I did think of one way to make it safer....I've got a piece of that plastic strip that protects the teeth on new Starret band saw blades that I saved. A piece of that snapped on the exposed loop of blade under the table would greatly reduce the risks!

Yes, I drained and refilled the crankcase in mine before I fired it up. I let it drain for several days because there was some very thick glop in the bottom. It took about 2 quarts to refill it. I used 90 weight non-detergent gear oil, which seemed sensible. The old oil smelled like old gear oil!

I think you are right that this machine was actually designed in the '30's but not put into production till the '50's. I was surprised that my machine was from '63; I had guessed it to be '30's or '40's vintage.

I just bought another Oliver Die Filer today! It's another of the little (SM-2?) models, similar to the one I already have, except this one has the full cast iron stand and the overarm. I stopped down at Sam Sottof's place in Long Beach to pick up a vintage motor for another project. Sam's the guy I bought the little 1905 Bardons & Oliver turret lathe from a month ago. Anyway, he offered me the little Oliver Die Filer for $75 to get it out of his way. How could I refuse? I also got a box of about 30 machine files and a few other goodies while I was there. The little Oliver is greasy but appears to work fine. So now I have three Oliver Die Filers; two little ones and one big one! It's hard to stop....

My address is:
Bruce Johnson
Johnson's Extremely Strange Musical Instrument Co.
119 W. Linden Ave.
Burbank, CA 91502

When you are talking about the "little"ones, do you mean this type?


(pic is before mounting motor)

Hello J;

Yes, that's exactly like the one I picked up yesterday; same grey color too. The model is stamped SP-2 and the serial number is 12576.

My other one is the same basic machine, but without the stand and overarm. It has a smaller table-top style cast base and it's table is square with diagonal grooves in the surface. It's black, and appears to be factory paint. I think it's older.

Bruce Johnson

Hm, mine is 13019, pretty close, also an SP-2, naturally.

What are the two diameters of the motor pulley on yours? Mine was lost when a P.O. tossed the motor, so currently mine has one speed. Oliver wanted over $100 for the pulley, IIRC.

Correction: they "only" wanted $90 for it. I paid about that for the whole thing as I received it, less motor (and pulley...), with a few more files.

Hello J;

I guess the motor pulley on mine is original. It looks to be the same design/construction as the main pulley. It's about 2 1/8" and 1 5/8" outside diameter. The V-belt that's on there sits fairly high in the groove, making the effective pitch diameters about 2" and 1 1/2". With a narrower belt, it would be more like 1 3/4" and 1 1/4".

The motor is an Emerson Electric 1/4 HP 1725 rpm. It looks about the right vintage, so it may be original too.

My other (older?) little die filer doesn't seem to have any model number or serial number marking. It has beautiful embossed and painted tags for Oliver of Adrian and the reminder to fill the crankcase with oil. It has a single adjustable pulley on a Century 1/4 HP motor, so that's probably not original. I think I paid about $120 for it on ebay a few years ago.

Bruce Johnson

Hi guys

I have a die filer just like the one in Mr Tier's picture with the round table. Where are you guys seeing the serial number? I'm not seeing it and it has the nice tag Bruce mentions. i paid $25 for the "old scroll saw"

It has what appears to be a original GE 1/3 Hp, 1750 RPM motor with a two-speed pulley. Someone built a square out of 2x4s that fit around the tapered column with lots of holes for the files. Ugly but handy.

I've been enjoying the thread. i just wish I knew more about them.

Jon

On mine it is the tag to the left of the pushbuttons box on the column.

For the bench type I have no idea where the tag is.

Bruce J:
Thank you for the pulley sizes.