ot----secrets of Moore jig borer B-18
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  1. #1
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    Default ot----secrets of Moore jig borer B-18

    one of the final manual jig borers produced by Moore Special Tools

    so to day I begin tear down and retrofit

    this machine build year 1978
    wired 440 vac--no option of rewire to 220 vac---so motor must go
    this machine had option of power feed X and Y axes also rotary encoder
    positioning x,y

    many pics of Moore jig borers are retrievable on web but I did not find tear down pics

    of most interest is spindle drive

    consists of 2 hp heavy 440 vac motor with 2 speed option 860 or 1725 rpm

    secret of Moore speed setting from 60 to 2250 rpm is stacked reeves drives

    these are smoothest, most solid construction I have encountered

    but---I will modify drive unit by replacing oem motor with 220 vac 2 or 3 hp
    1750rpm and vfd

    you will notice final output of speed assembly is thru 2 v-belts
    this construction will remain--all vari-sheaves will be removed
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 100_2746.jpg   100_2749.jpg   100_2753.jpg   100_2757.jpg   100_2758.jpg  


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    Why not use the original motor and use a transformer to make 440V?

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    Quote Originally Posted by enginebill View Post
    Why not use the original motor and use a transformer to make 440V?
    I agree, and even if you must replace the motor with a VFD setup, why so low horsepower? If you want good performance at lower speeds, I'd think you should use at least a 5Hp. And check if there'll be any "cogging" effects with the new drive, it would be a shame to compromise bore finish quality on a Moore.

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    Wow, I'm sure I couldn't even afford new belts for it.

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    my machine retrofits are characterized by 220 volt single phase mains input--even if it requires up to 20 hp vfd dedicated to one machine--sadly, the 2 hp Robbins and Myers spindle motor was dual voltage 220/440 when it left the factory---but was likely rewound to 440 only

    the Moore system of power transmission to the spindle relies upon very substantial rotating inertial mass to smoothly swing boring bars up to 5 in diameter

    mass of all spinning components allows elimination of gearbox for low tool rpm application while preserving superb surface finish--and I likely will forfeit a degree of performance in this category---
    my focus is increasing rpm from factory 2250 to equivalent of bridgeport 2j head---4200 rpm
    the proprietary Moore spindle socket taper will undergo transformation to either 30 Erickson or 200 Kwik Switch--gun drilling of the very long Moore spindle may be required
    the key observation here is production of a machine incorporating clockwise and anti-clockwise rotation--it is my impression Wayne Moore was almost apologetic with regard to clockwise function only of the company tooling system

    Moore jig borer tools were not intended for milling applications---when this machine conversion is complete I anticipate a more versatile unit with an expanded envelope of performance which I hope justifies the compromises

    stay tuned
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 101_1156.jpg   101_1139.jpg   101_1141.jpg   101_1150.jpg   101_1165.jpg  


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    On that machine were the table feed for rapid only?

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    Todd

    power feed on unit has variable speed as control voltage to servo drives is varied---0 to +10 vdc

    servo drives do not have encoder input and cannot be controlled for digital positioning
    the user pushes a button and varies speed while the axis moves
    fine positioning performed by manual handwheel

    when I finish retrofit I plan on trial of power feed milling--

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    Just curious is this machine retrofit for yourself or a customer or for sale after it is complete?
    It seems such a shame to trash all that fine work for a bit of a bump in speed?
    What will be the intended type of work?

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    Quote Originally Posted by M. Moore View Post
    Just curious is this machine retrofit for yourself or a customer or for sale after it is complete?
    It seems such a shame to trash all that fine work for a bit of a bump in speed?
    What will be the intended type of work?
    I am collector/retrofitter
    in order to fully understand a mechanical mechanism you must tear down and reassemble or execute working modification--upgrade

    there is no current market for Moore jig borers as configured by factory

    otoh, there is a market for retrofitters updating Moore jig grinders

    the jig borer was advertised as a holemaker---with great limitations
    so, I referenced slow spindle and painfully antiquated tooling--no spindle reverse
    the primary reason the Moore jig boring product line lasted as long as it did was fabulous positioning accuracy producing one offs

    used machinery buyers are more complaining than ever--and none want spindles that spin less than 4K

    when I complete this conversion as a two axis cnc--I will play with it a while then send it to a good home

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    Thanks for a very good reply.
    So when it is done it will be a light duty mill or still just accurate boring?

    It does seem to me that if you doubled the motor rpm you would achieve the speed range you are after, 120 to 4500 rpm? Provided you could find a two speed motor 1725/3450.

    They are such fine machines that it is almost required that they be upgraded to last many more years.

    If I am down your way it would be great to see your shop. It think I bought some items from you a few years back.

    Keep us posted on your progress.

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    Default new power

    all components of vari-drive assembly were removed

    3 hp donor motor --aluminum frame 1700 rpm dual voltage C-frame
    is employed as new power---but flange dimensions do not allow direct bolt up to factory --so flange was notched

    ---oem motor is split and output end housing bored and cut off creating clamping ring allowing direct clamping force around full circumference of
    donor motor flange

    v-belt aluminum sheave was turned down and factory sheave spindle ground on od grinder to 30 mm diameter--this was required dimension of support bearings id bore--assembly was pressed and installed on bare vari-drive frame

    remaining work is selection of coupling assembly mating 30 mm v-belt drive input shaft to 1-1/8 inch output shaft of 3 hp motor--then unit will be rotated 180 deg and installed--

    pics are of inverted drive assembly
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 100_1198.jpg   100_1194.jpg   100_1204.jpg   100_1202.jpg   100_1203.jpg  


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    Default power run

    vfd power applied to new motor drive

    this configuration does not like spindle frequency beyond 2500 rpm---motor is 1700 speced at 60 hz

    moore belts are stretched asymmetrically --will need replacement

    the jig borer belt tension is set with cast aluminum hood on since the adjustment screw is built into the hood --

    belt whip even with new v-belts will likely eliminate goal of 4K spindle speed--this would also require 3600 rpm drive motor capability

    short clips


    YouTube

    YouTube

    YouTube
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 100_2764.jpg   100_2763.jpg  

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    Wouldn't a wide cogged belt belt and pulley combo solve the issue?

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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie_obe View Post
    Wouldn't a wide cogged belt belt and pulley combo solve the issue?

    25 years ago we did what you suggest to a bridgeport 2j head --removed vari-sheave configuration and replaced with goodyear cog belt drive with vfd---worked beautifully--but the bp head allowed a small circumference belt with low mass

    belts on the B-18 Moore are 92 inch==7.6 feet and there is no easily modifiable architecture allowing distance closure between motor and spindle sheaves

    so--i was looking at my Romi lathe 20x40 with 3500 rpm spindle --- 3 v-belt drive---to reduce belt issues Romi uses low mass v-belts of max width 3/8 inch---Moore belts are about 1 inch across

    v-belts provide a margin of safety in the event of tool seizure--they slip

    analyzing the architecture of this machine reinforces Moore commitment to provide top end spindle speed at 2250 rpm---this is actually a drop from the No 2 jig borer of 20 years earlier with 2500 rpm spindle

    max rpm of G-18 jig grinder is orbital spindle speed of 300 rpm---grinding wheel of course---80K +

    I could push spindle speed higher by modifying sheaves to 3/8 inch and going to low mass polymer---this is the approach Aciera used on the cnc No 5--fly weight belts run at high rpm---but the Moore is what it is--so I now move on to conversion of spindle taper to 30 erickson or 200 kwik switch

    a sobering undertaking :!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JHOLLAND1 View Post
    25 years ago we did what you suggest to a bridgeport 2j head --removed vari-sheave configuration and replaced with goodyear cog belt drive with vfd---worked beautifully--but the bp head allowed a small circumference belt with low mass

    belts on the B-18 Moore are 92 inch==7.6 feet and there is no easily modifiable architecture allowing distance closure between motor and spindle sheaves.
    Your goals need a redefinition of easy.
    Ditch the motor and drive casting all together, Fabricate a mount to hold the drive motor inverted in the place where the vari-speed pulleys were. This should cut 18-24" off the total belt length.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie_obe View Post
    Your goals need a redefinition of easy.
    Ditch the motor and drive casting all together, Fabricate a mount to hold the drive motor inverted in the place where the vari-speed pulleys were. This should cut 18-24" off the total belt length.
    if this Moore was one unit of a production shop with part quotas--your suggestion would be a likely option---but alteration of the machine profile envelope would compromise its character--

    and the core of my undertaking will be spindle conversion to some quick change format allowing bi-directional rotation

    x-y cnc capability also planned

    and even after all of the tweaking---I may not recover cost of tool and
    added components---but this process is meant to be an adventure

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    Default its alive

    using vfd set to 60 cycles jig borer spins at factory spec of 2250 rpm

    analog tac display is neat feature and requires no input power in any form--magnetic induction moves hand
    with this indicator Moore pays homage to the greatest legacy watchmaker--
    I will defer naming this luminary to an astute reader


    video

    YouTube

    YouTube
    YouTube
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 100_1207.jpg  

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    Abraham-Louis Breguet
    I saw in person one of his watches made in the 18th century.
    Absolutely amazing.

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    Default the barn find

    both x,y encoder scales work

    drive system for y axis functions as expected

    x axis drive has malfunction characterized by runaway

    step motors will replace brush dc servo motors on this unit--little liklihood of runaway events

    ---the barn find--removed fabric way covers and found 1795 silver dollar--
    a fake from asian vampire hub counterfeit ring---but a momentary high


    YouTube
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 100_1223.jpg   100_1215.jpg   100_1219.jpg   100_1212.jpg   100_1229.jpg  


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    Default thumbs up---open frame motors

    so I initially mated 3 hp 1700 rpm motor--off italian woodworking machine operating at fixed speed and light cutting load --to the B-18

    I could push it with inverter to 50 cycles and then vfd faulted--until
    total ground fault short

    pulled unit and found smoked windings--this was sealed explosion proof motor operating in cabinet shop--interior coated with fine hardwood dust--which did not ignite but coked--taking insulating polymer coating with it

    had 2 hp chinese bp type mill motor and fashioned it to fit---works great --open frame with fan --40 minute test run--motor did not heat above 95 F

    it is clear that hardware of this machine will not allow spindle speed past 2400 rpm--
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 100_1231.jpg   100_1232.jpg   100_1238.jpg   100_1239.jpg   100_1240.jpg  



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