Phase-Craft gone?

I had read about Phase Craft on Swatkins thread about his planer and been planning to buy one as soon as I found a good idler motor. When I went to order it today, his EBay store is shut down. Anyone know if he is coming back or if another vendor is as good?

I know I can build one. I have before but I liked the idea of a nice clean one that doesn’t require me to make it.

Thanks!

In my own shop, I have used a Snyder for over twenty years, but I think they are out of business now. When I got it (used), I found it worked better than the converter I had built, so I have to admit that experience does produce good results.

I have looked at ads from Swigart Electric (Near Dayton, OH) and admire the professional looking design of their phase converters. I don't need another converter, so I cannot say anything about Swigart's prices or performance.

Pump Motors | Swigart Electric Motors, Inc. | Englewood, Ohio
3 Phase Convertors - tools - by owner - sale

Larry

DeSelle said:

I had read about Phase Craft on Swatkins thread about his planer and been planning to buy one as soon as I found a good idler motor. When I went to order it today, his EBay store is shut down. Anyone know if he is coming back or if another vendor is as good?

I know I can build one. I have before but I liked the idea of a nice clean one that doesn’t require me to make it.

Thanks!

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Phase Craft is Jim Gorman
(714) 710-90ninefour
altcheckmate at gmail dot com

I bought a 20hp control panel for my RPC from Jim... He was very helpful on the phone when I was setting it up.

I don’t know if this is what you are looking for but I think its still available, make offer. http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...wanted/sale-20-hp-rpc-338704/?highlight=Phase

Thanks to all for the responses. I contacted Jim at Phase Craft but he is retired. I checked with North America and when I told them I wanted to use a 10 HP 324 frame motor they recommended that I don’t. They said older motors like that don’t work well for converters. I also have a newer 15 HP motor and several 7.5 HP motors. The largest thing I plan to run is my Hendey 16” lathe at 5 HP. I find some places that say I need at least 10 HP for the idler and some that say I can get away with 7.5 HP.

I would buy the 15 HP panel from North America but at that price I think I would rather build one. If I go the 15 HP route my only concern then becomes pony start versus cap start. I appreciate any advice. Everything to get there seems to be in here. Just have to mine it out and blend it.

Can anyone tell me why the older motor is not a good choice? I’m not questioning them just want to know.

Thanks,

Nathan

Old motors are all that I use. The newest one I have is at least 15 years old. Older = heavier = good.

Next time ask "why do you say that". Have a motor book on your lap so you can look up information and respond quickly to answers.

rons said:

Old motors are all that I use. The newest one I have is at least 15 years old. Older = heavier = good.

Next time ask "why do you say that". Have a motor book on your lap so you can look up information and respond quickly to answers.

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But a 324 frame would date prior to 1952. More than a little old...

The guy at North America said something To the effect of a motor that old produces a hook shaped waveform rather than a sine waveform. I know the difference but not why or why it matters. Either way. Another dumb question if you will allow....

If I use pony motor to start the idler, I won’t need to worry about start caps or their circuit right? I can just spin up and then use a timer or switch to drop the pony motor out and engage the contactor for the idler? Then it would just be run and power correction caps?

Thanks for any help, if it’s not obvious, this is not my area of expertise

I use a pony motor to spin mine then plug in 3ph motor in to a dryer outlet, no caps no noth'in true the wave form is not the best balanced nor prufect sine wave but I'm not running a complicated computer controled stuf nor a fridge etc just another 1/2hp M head mill or a 3hp lathe. The old motor i use has sleave bearings and came with the mill some 25 years ago and that owner had used it daily for over 20 years in a job shop.
the pont is mounted on a hinged plate and is under driven i put the belt one stick my foot under it plug in the 110 motor lift my foot to tention the belt get the motor spinning plug it in then once the 3ph is running drop the hinge kick off the belt and unplug the 110 pony

I’m sure it would work. It seems like almost anything will work to some degree. I was just wondering if my thought process was in line. I want to build one that is safe and reliable

Not sure the wiring to your building, or all your future plans. But with a 5hp, I'd want atleast a 7.5, and probably 10, because you never know what you may drag home, or add on later.

Relatively speaking, good used motors are cheap. I wouldn't shy away from buying a newer 10hp, long term your electric bill will be lower. Regardless of which hp rpc, they don't pull full amps at idle or light load. But your idle amps will still be higher with a 15hp, than a 10. How many hours a month will you run, and for how many years ? If your current, and possible future loads will be 5-ish or less, then i'd buy a ten for energy saving, plus rpc cost saving. Those savings will buy you a newer motor.

If you have the slightest inkling you may want a 10hp lathe in the future, I'd do 15 now, so you won't need to reconfig later.

Plus consider addition loads of some machines, maybe spindle is 5hp, but hydraulics maybe 1 or 2, coolant pump ? other ? you may need 5hp running while doing other motor start ups as well.

DeSelle said:

Thanks to all for the responses. I contacted Jim at Phase Craft but he is retired.

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Not really surprised - he was in the age range, AFAIK.

Can anyone tell me why the older motor is not a good choice?

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I'd guess they are letting VFD advice "leak over" to RPC idlers out of caution they might get a finger pointed their way if you got a half-toasted motor.

Older is fine. RPC are sine-wave animals, no switching artifacts, and an idler is acting as a rotating transformer more than as a conventional motor. That's why it is called an "idler".

The caps in a control unit - if even one HAS such - are the only component that ages or degrades much over time, "start" cap especially.

DeSelle said:

I’m sure it would work. It seems like almost anything will work to some degree. I was just wondering if my thought process was in line. I want to build one that is safe and reliable

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I did mine all brand new, Jim's Phase-Craft control, a ten HP Weg. Figured it was actually a "once in a lifetime" spend, so no compelling reason to invest time I did not have spare trying to find a used motor, haul it or ship it, clean it, put new bearings in it, mebbe paint it - or basically mess-with at all. Other fish to electrocute, and I am waaay behind schedule on all of those arredy - a nicer mounting (its own wheels) for the RPC included.

Ability to add another 5, 7.5, maybe even a 10 HP as supplementary idler for at least handling load motor starting inrush is plenty. My worst-case is about 7 to 7.5 HP load, main spindle and traverse/rapids combined. Only the main drive motor matters as to starts. Knee is only 1.5 HP.

It is rare to run a load-motor - of any size - on a machine-tool hard up against nameplate FLA, anyway. Half or even LESS, is far more common. A table saw is more likely to hit its peak than a lathe or mill is.

Even if I NEEDED 15 HP or 20 HP, I just didn't want to have to START an idler larger than 10 HP in a single chunk. A "supplementary" idler after all, does not NEED a supplementary RPC control. Only a contactor.

The power "wasted" by an RPC, idle or loaded is not worth much worry, either. VFD and DC drives are only around 95% efficient, Phase-Perfect 93%. WTH - even a transformer has measurable losses.

An RPC's "efficiency" isn't really enough different for that part of its characteristics to greatly matter.

FWIW these folks assemble a usable unit; Welcome to WNY Supply your online phase converter store I bought one 7.5hp IIRC. It worked.....

Did you buy the whole unit or panel or kit? They offer a kit as well which is perfect for me. In have idlers and a nice enclosure.....

DeSelle said:

Did you buy the whole unit or panel or kit? They offer a kit as well which is perfect for me. In have idlers and a nice enclosure.....

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I don't think you can buy the various parts for their assembled unit price. {Unless you work for $0.05 / Hr}

No doubt the pricing is good. When I looked them up online, all i found were bad reviews but they were also all old reviews. I was hoping someone has some recent experience with them...

L Vanice said:

In my own shop, I have used a Snyder for over twenty years, but I think they are out of business now. When I got it (used), I found it worked better than the converter I had built, so I have to admit that experience does produce good results.

I have looked at ads from Swigart Electric (Near Dayton, OH) and admire the professional looking design of their phase converters. I don't need another converter, so I cannot say anything about Swigart's prices or performance.

Pump Motors | Swigart Electric Motors, Inc. | Englewood, Ohio
3 Phase Convertors - tools - by owner - sale

Larry

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Sorry to confirm that I have retired from the phase converter business. I'll be 70 later this year, and my body was telling me it was time to slow down. I've had a lot of calls from PM members lately, and I hate to have to turn down the business. I've had nothing but positive experiences with every PM member I've ever built a converter for. After personally building over 4,000 converters over the years, I just had to come to grips with the fact that there are other things that are more important to me at this stage of my life. I took things as far as one old guy working alone could take them, and have no desire to deal with hiring employees.

Phase-Craft, with Trademark, all circuit designs and construction methods, equipment, inventory and supply sourcing, is for sale to the right person, but I'm not actively marketing the business, and I don't just want to sell it to anybody, capable or not. The solid reputation as to the reliability of my designs, and the Phase-Craft brand recognition open up the possibility for someone younger with more energy and stamina to make the company grow quickly. It would just take a good website, which I never developed, and some aggressive advertising to get the ball rolling. I won't sell the business to someone whom I don't believe has the necessary qualifications to be successful, and I'd provide the training to get a new owner up and running. Personally, I'd rather see the business end quietly than sell it to someone who would wind up running it into the ground.

As for those converters out of NY, I personally could not recommend them, because the bad reviews have been consistent as long as I've been in the business.


Jim

Phase-Craft said:

Sorry to confirm that I have retired from the phase converter business. I'll be 70 later this year, and my body was telling me it was time to slow down. I've had a lot of calls from PM members lately, and I hate to have to turn down the business.

<SNIP> The solid reputation as to the reliability of my designs, and the Phase-Craft brand recognition open up the possibility . . . It would just take a good website . . . <SNIP>

Jim

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Jim, pass on what you have learned! Based upon the many positive things I've read about you and your company, you have much to offer without having to assemble boxes or RPCs. Sure, slow down. Take stock, maybe reorganize your company, consider new "delivery options" for a "different product" (knowledge). Look at the "true value" of your business . . . that would be YOU.

Whatever you decide to do with Phase Craft, I wish you the very best as you enter a new chapter in your life.

Gary

DeSelle said:

The guy at North America said something To the effect of a motor that old produces a hook shaped waveform rather than a sine waveform. I know the difference but not why or why it matters. Either way. Another dumb question if you will allow....

If I use pony motor to start the idler, I won’t need to worry about start caps or their circuit right? I can just spin up and then use a timer or switch to drop the pony motor out and engage the contactor for the idler? Then it would just be run and power correction caps?

Thanks for any help, if it’s not obvious, this is not my area of expertise

Click to expand...

Just an FYI. I believe North America is owned by American Rotary Phase Converters:

Phase Converters | Power Transformers | Power Accessories | American Rotary

I purchased a couple American Rotary static converters a few years ago and was looking for a third last year. American Rotary said they were getting out of the static converter business, but I could purchase one from their wholly owned subsidiary North America.

I did purchase a comparable size one from North America, but it seems to be a lower end model. The ones from American Rotary can be energized as often as necessary, and have no problem with instant reversing as done when tapping on a mill. The North America model cautions it only be energized a maximum of 6 times per hour and should not be used for instant reversing.

I also have a 15 hp American Rotary (rotary converter) waiting to be installed. This unit cost a little less than $1,300.00 in 2015. The same unit today sells for about $1,650.00. The prices for similar size equipment from from North America are generally $300.00 - $400.00 less expensive. I don't know exactly why, but I would assume there's some difference in the cost (and possibly quality) of the components they use.