Potential 10x36 Norton grinder
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  1. #1
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    Default Potential 10x36 Norton grinder

    Well, I wasn't sure where to post this, but since it's a war production machine this seemed like the best forum.

    Periodically I've been looking for a decent sized OD grinder. Recently happened upon a potential candidate in the form of a war era 10x36 Norton.

    Just curious what kind of 'can of worms' I may potentially be looking at? From what literature have seen it appears that Norton used plain bearings, whereas Cincinnati used some form of hydraulically compensated bearing. Any thoughts on how to evaluate such a machine without it being under power?

    Thanks,
    Aaron

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    From what literature have seen it appears that Norton used plain bearings
    Indeed - and my 1947 B&S #4 does also

    Here is Norton scan from WW2

    norton-wheel-head.jpg

    Could maybe pry up on a wood block under wheel to check wheel side bearing for sloppiness - there should be next to none

    However done, a good look at table ways will give the story about lubrication adequacy

    I'll suppose the 10 X 36 is a "Plain" O.D. grinder. A Universal would be handier - has work head that swivels

    If you actually get the thing, I can probably scan the September 1941 brochure on the "plain"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron B View Post
    Just curious what kind of 'can of worms' I may potentially be looking at?
    You're overthinking this, any of the brand names of grinder will work fine.

    However, and this is purely a personal opinion, I would rather have a Landis or Cincinnati. I find the Norton more cumbersome to operate. In fact, I wouldn't take a Norton if it were given to me.

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    Default Potential 10x36 Norton grinder

    In what way is a Norton cumbersome? I've not run any cylindrical grinders, so I'm not familiar with their respective control layouts.

    Yes, it appears to be a plain type C, not a universal.

    Perhaps I'm better off waiting to find a universal with the drop down ID? Buy once and be done.


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    On a side note, any thoughts on the following Cincinnati? Allegedly the chuck is 8".


    It doesn't tick the box for ID, but certainly lighter than the Norton, as in within the capacity of my forklift.

    Looks to me like Norton runs a considerably large wheel.


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    Cincy is Universal - you can see the swivel at bottom on work head. Smaller wheel typical on Universal compared to "plain". My 14 X 60 B&S only has 14" X 1 1/2" wide

    These are incidentally much easier to buy money wise. You don't really want to buy another 30" very often

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    Wheel size makes sense. Is imaging the expectation for a universal is to do more one off jobs, hence the smaller wheel.

    Any estimation of the capacity of the pictured Cincinnati?

    Another point I can use some clarification on, that being the headstock center. Having watched some old movies on grinding I understood that the center was stationary/dead, which seems to be the case in some other videos I've watched. Then I was watching a sales video for a used Cincinnati universal, and noticed the center turning with the faceplate. An I correct in thinking this is because you can readily dress the center in a universal, whereas it would not be easily accomplished on a plain grinder?


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    The B&S work spindle here can be locked (like grinding between centers - when only the dog driver rotates) or rotating like for spinning something in a chuck - a common accessory for a Universal

    Cincinnati Universal started at 12 X 24 and went up to 18 X 72. Get a serial and maybe we can get closer. Serials start with 1U, 2U and 3U

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron B View Post
    Wheel size makes sense. Is imaging the expectation for a universal is to do more one off jobs, hence the smaller wheel.

    Any estimation of the capacity of the pictured Cincinnati?

    Another point I can use some clarification on, that being the headstock center. Having watched some old movies on grinding I understood that the center was stationary/dead, which seems to be the case in some other videos I've watched. Then I was watching a sales video for a used Cincinnati universal, and noticed the center turning with the faceplate. An I correct in thinking this is because you can readily dress the center in a universal, whereas it would not be easily accomplished on a plain grinder?


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    I have a 6 x18 Norton CTU and its not a light duty machine- more of a production grinder- not universal. It uses a 20" wheel. Wheel head bearings are plain type and run just fine. Its a little clunky, but the big wheel is nice in that you can grind a heck of a lot of parts between dressing. I use an Arnold gage for size control and I can grind to a few tenths all day with it. Darn thing probably weighs about 6000-7000 lbs- not light.

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    Common fault is the spindle lock sheared off and jammed .....my Landis had only this fault ,but the spindle lock bushing was impossible to remove (it should unscrew).

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    Here's the Norton in question.

    norton.jpg

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    What a marvel to have stuffed in your garage! Catalog says 10,100 Lbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron B View Post
    Here's the Norton in question.

    norton.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnoder View Post
    What a marvel to have stuffed in your garage!
    Yeah, marvel all right. Like an 86" New Era Bullard, hunky-dory.

    Nice 20" wheel, only takes a few months to special order, weighs a hundred pounds and costs in the hundreds now. Very versatile.

    See the weirdass little extra wheel on the right hand big wheel ? the one with the little holes like index plates on a dividing head ? That's your infeed control. Whoopie.

    You can grind with it, yes, there's no doubt about that, I've even done it, but fun ? Versatile ? Enjoyable ?

    I guess some people like running a 1910 30" swing lathe with a four-speed gearbox mounted above to make 2" parts, too. But I'll take a 1960 14 x 30 Pacemaker, thank you very much.

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    The main base of the Cincinnati pic looks like a plain OD grinder. But if you just right of grinding wheel, it looks like half the hinge is still on grinding head for an ID drop down attachment.

    Besides headstock being able to rotate, the table should be able to rotate slightly on a universal as well, 15 degrees maybe ?

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    Default Potential 10x36 Norton grinder

    So, what size wheel does the Norton run? I'm seeing newer CTU's listed as 24" and 30".

    30" wheels seem to be more plentiful on the surplus market.


    Am I reading the manual correctly that the large part of the handwheel is .001" and the divider gizmo is .0001"?

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    So, what size wheel
    From September 1941

    Max possible to grind with 24" is 10"

    Max possible to grind with 30" is 4"

    Standard wheel 24 X 3 X 12

    Standard with max width 24 X 5 X 12

    Maximum width and dia is 20 X 7 X 12

    Maximum dia. and width 30 X 2 1/2 X 12

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    I have had 16x72 Landis Universal for 40 years......and have a question....when a plain grinder grinds taper on your trial go,how is it corrected? ......I know how to correct the universal,but a plain?

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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    I have had 16x72 Landis Universal for 40 years......and have a question....when a plain grinder grinds taper on your trial go,how is it corrected? ......I know how to correct the universal,but a plain?

    Same as universal - table top swivels

    The "angled" upper table is able to swivel on lower table as in this Norton

    20210511_184630.jpg

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    That's a CTU for sure. Mine had a 2" wide wheel on it, but the wheel mount would take a 1" wheel with no modifications. The fine feed handwheel is .004" on diameter per turn and is nice for sneaking up on size. The CTUs are not toolroom grinders but if its inexpensive, and you have the room for it and it won't cost a fortune to move, they get the job done.

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    I did get a chance to look at the Norton this past weekend. As much as I hate to see old iron scrapped, I don't think that it's the machine for me. The grinder is setting where it was unloaded about 30 years ago. Could not get the wheel to budge by hand, but that's probably normal as the bearings are likely to be bone dry. Did notice that one of the cover glasses for the spindle oiler is gone, so 30 years of dust exposure too. And naturally a solid wheel's width is ground out of the tailstock quill.


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