Potential 10x36 Norton grinder

Aaron B · May 10, 2021

Well, I wasn't sure where to post this, but since it's a war production machine this seemed like the best forum.

Periodically I've been looking for a decent sized OD grinder. Recently happened upon a potential candidate in the form of a war era 10x36 Norton.

Just curious what kind of 'can of worms' I may potentially be looking at? From what literature have seen it appears that Norton used plain bearings, whereas Cincinnati used some form of hydraulically compensated bearing. Any thoughts on how to evaluate such a machine without it being under power?

Thanks,
Aaron

johnoder · May 10, 2021

From what literature have seen it appears that Norton used plain bearings

Indeed - and my 1947 B&S #4 does also

Here is Norton scan from WW2

Could maybe pry up on a wood block under wheel to check wheel side bearing for sloppiness - there should be next to none

However done, a good look at table ways will give the story about lubrication adequacy

I'll suppose the 10 X 36 is a "Plain" O.D. grinder. A Universal would be handier - has work head that swivels

If you actually get the thing, I can probably scan the September 1941 brochure on the "plain"

EmGo · May 10, 2021

Aaron B said:
Just curious what kind of 'can of worms' I may potentially be looking at?

You're overthinking this, any of the brand names of grinder will work fine.

However, and this is purely a personal opinion, I would rather have a Landis or Cincinnati. I find the Norton more cumbersome to operate. In fact, I wouldn't take a Norton if it were given to me.

Aaron B · May 10, 2021

In what way is a Norton cumbersome? I've not run any cylindrical grinders, so I'm not familiar with their respective control layouts.

Yes, it appears to be a plain type C, not a universal.

Perhaps I'm better off waiting to find a universal with the drop down ID? Buy once and be done.

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Aaron B · May 10, 2021

On a side note, any thoughts on the following Cincinnati? Allegedly the chuck is 8".

It doesn't tick the box for ID, but certainly lighter than the Norton, as in within the capacity of my forklift.

Looks to me like Norton runs a considerably large wheel.

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johnoder · May 10, 2021

Cincy is Universal - you can see the swivel at bottom on work head. Smaller wheel typical on Universal compared to "plain". My 14 X 60 B&S only has 14" X 1 1/2" wide

These are incidentally much easier to buy money wise. You don't really want to buy another 30" very often

Aaron B · May 10, 2021

Wheel size makes sense. Is imaging the expectation for a universal is to do more one off jobs, hence the smaller wheel.

Any estimation of the capacity of the pictured Cincinnati?

Another point I can use some clarification on, that being the headstock center. Having watched some old movies on grinding I understood that the center was stationary/dead, which seems to be the case in some other videos I've watched. Then I was watching a sales video for a used Cincinnati universal, and noticed the center turning with the faceplate. An I correct in thinking this is because you can readily dress the center in a universal, whereas it would not be easily accomplished on a plain grinder?

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johnoder · May 10, 2021

The B&S work spindle here can be locked (like grinding between centers - when only the dog driver rotates) or rotating like for spinning something in a chuck - a common accessory for a Universal

Cincinnati Universal started at 12 X 24 and went up to 18 X 72. Get a serial and maybe we can get closer. Serials start with 1U, 2U and 3U

Aaron B said:
Wheel size makes sense. Is imaging the expectation for a universal is to do more one off jobs, hence the smaller wheel.

Any estimation of the capacity of the pictured Cincinnati?

Another point I can use some clarification on, that being the headstock center. Having watched some old movies on grinding I understood that the center was stationary/dead, which seems to be the case in some other videos I've watched. Then I was watching a sales video for a used Cincinnati universal, and noticed the center turning with the faceplate. An I correct in thinking this is because you can readily dress the center in a universal, whereas it would not be easily accomplished on a plain grinder?

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Dan from Oakland · May 10, 2021

I have a 6 x18 Norton CTU and its not a light duty machine- more of a production grinder- not universal. It uses a 20" wheel. Wheel head bearings are plain type and run just fine. Its a little clunky, but the big wheel is nice in that you can grind a heck of a lot of parts between dressing. I use an Arnold gage for size control and I can grind to a few tenths all day with it. Darn thing probably weighs about 6000-7000 lbs- not light.

john.k · May 10, 2021

Common fault is the spindle lock sheared off and jammed .....my Landis had only this fault ,but the spindle lock bushing was impossible to remove (it should unscrew).

Aaron B · May 11, 2021

Here's the Norton in question.

johnoder · May 11, 2021

What a marvel to have stuffed in your garage! Catalog says 10,100 Lbs

Aaron B said:
Here's the Norton in question.

View attachment 320880

EmGo · May 11, 2021

johnoder said:
What a marvel to have stuffed in your garage!

Yeah, marvel all right. Like an 86" New Era Bullard, hunky-dory.

Nice 20" wheel, only takes a few months to special order, weighs a hundred pounds and costs in the hundreds now. Very versatile.

See the weirdass little extra wheel on the right hand big wheel ? the one with the little holes like index plates on a dividing head ? That's your infeed control. Whoopie.

You can grind with it, yes, there's no doubt about that, I've even done it, but fun ? Versatile ? Enjoyable ?

I guess some people like running a 1910 30" swing lathe with a four-speed gearbox mounted above to make 2" parts, too. But I'll take a 1960 14 x 30 Pacemaker, thank you very much.

texasgeartrain · May 11, 2021

The main base of the Cincinnati pic looks like a plain OD grinder. But if you just right of grinding wheel, it looks like half the hinge is still on grinding head for an ID drop down attachment.

Besides headstock being able to rotate, the table should be able to rotate slightly on a universal as well, 15 degrees maybe ?

Aaron B · May 11, 2021

So, what size wheel does the Norton run? I'm seeing newer CTU's listed as 24" and 30".

30" wheels seem to be more plentiful on the surplus market.

Am I reading the manual correctly that the large part of the handwheel is .001" and the divider gizmo is .0001"?

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johnoder · May 11, 2021

So, what size wheel

From September 1941

Max possible to grind with 24" is 10"

Max possible to grind with 30" is 4"

Standard wheel 24 X 3 X 12

Standard with max width 24 X 5 X 12

Maximum width and dia is 20 X 7 X 12

Maximum dia. and width 30 X 2 1/2 X 12

john.k · May 11, 2021

I have had 16x72 Landis Universal for 40 years......and have a question....when a plain grinder grinds taper on your trial go,how is it corrected? ......I know how to correct the universal,but a plain?

johnoder · May 11, 2021

john.k said:
I have had 16x72 Landis Universal for 40 years......and have a question....when a plain grinder grinds taper on your trial go,how is it corrected? ......I know how to correct the universal,but a plain?

Same as universal - table top swivels

The "angled" upper table is able to swivel on lower table as in this Norton

Dan from Oakland · May 13, 2021

That's a CTU for sure. Mine had a 2" wide wheel on it, but the wheel mount would take a 1" wheel with no modifications. The fine feed handwheel is .004" on diameter per turn and is nice for sneaking up on size. The CTUs are not toolroom grinders but if its inexpensive, and you have the room for it and it won't cost a fortune to move, they get the job done.

Aaron B · May 17, 2021

I did get a chance to look at the Norton this past weekend. As much as I hate to see old iron scrapped, I don't think that it's the machine for me. The grinder is setting where it was unloaded about 30 years ago. Could not get the wheel to budge by hand, but that's probably normal as the bearings are likely to be bone dry. Did notice that one of the cover glasses for the spindle oiler is gone, so 30 years of dust exposure too. And naturally a solid wheel's width is ground out of the tailstock quill.

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