Powerturn lathe, 1968 Lodge & shipley - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    I don't envy you the job of leveling that long beast. Mine had been sitting in the back of a shop improperly leveled for 20 years so I just did round three of leveling in two months of owning it as it settles back in.

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    I hauled a Powerturn like that on my "light" trailer, it has 4400 lb springs on both axles (axles were 6000 lb). It broke a couple of leaves on both springs on the front axle........seemed to be riding well though.

    I'll use one of the heavier trailers next time.

  3. #43
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    We trashed/thrashed 2 lighter weight 16' trailers over the years and finally found a good match with the 3/4 ton truck and a trailer with pair of 7,000 lb axles.

    No progress on the lathe lately. I did find a transformer but have not hooked it up. Also still need to finish cleaning the whole thing... life is what happens when you make other plans.

  4. #44
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    In my case it is wife and life that gets in the way.

    Dave

  5. #45
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    Nice project! Keep up the good work !

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grigg View Post
    ...still need to finish cleaning the whole thing... life is what happens when you make other plans.
    Nearly 3 years later finally making some progress.

    Fixed the feed gear train idler hub, new bearings and the pin fit in the arm was within Loctite 609's ability.
    img_3152.jpg

    Cleaned the back end of the headstock pretty well, moving along to the front next. Also flushing and changing the oil, very little was left in headstock and feed box.
    img_3170.jpg

    Looking in the parts manual The feed gear box shows a plunger pump and Bijur oil distribution blocks and lines, don't think it has any metering units.
    Would it be wise to pull the feed gear box off for further cleaning and to ensure that pump is working as it should and oil flows through all the lines? Or not remove it and if oil drips by the sight window trust that the rest are fine?
    The only two greasy pages in the parts manual are for the feed gear box, might have been apart, and who knows if mistakes were made.. The manual was prepared for and supplied new with this lathe, matching serial number.
    img_3172.jpg

    The apron has a similar system with metering units, I do intend to disassemble, clean and replace the metering units in it.

    Last question for now, what is the likely oil pressure? No info in the manuals. The pump specs from manufacturer show 300 or 500 psi, filter housing is heavy/thick, all plumbed with 3/8" copper with compression fittings. Pump only pushes oil through a filter and then sprays and rains oil down from the top of the headstock from an open ended 3/8" tube.
    My last Powerturn was a little older with same pump, different filter housing, and a spinning oil sprayer deal with two smaller nozzles, this one I think had more oil pressure, more restricted flow.

    Reason for asking is the old lathe had a low oil pressure cutoff switch and the new one doesn't but I want to add one. New switch is adjustable, max pressure 240 psi. Trying to decide if it might work in the output line from filter (better choice if pressure drops from clogged filter or broken line) or might it have to go on the filter input to see reliable pressure?
    Might have to get it running, check pressure, then decide..

    In any case feels good to finally be making progress on this machine!

  7. #47
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    congrats thats a nice lathe,i have the 2013/17 also made in 1968.It swings 24 5/8 on the tag but it will swing 26.Its also 174" c to c.Thought I would mention that mine has a 15 horse motor and absolutely no lack of power in any speed.I haven't had the need to run it 1740 but it will do it fine and is very quiet.Good luck with it and if you just get tired of looking at it let me know I'm rite down the road.

  8. #48
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    Was there anything in the plumbing to create a restriction, so there would be measurable pressure? I haven't traced it out, only checked with the lid off, to see if it was flowing. A simple sight glass would be sufficient.

  9. #49
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    My old one did make pressure, had a functioning pressure switch/interlock with the main motor. It had a different oil sprayer than this lathe, this one might not make as much pressure. The filter should provide a slight pressure increase between it and the pump. May just have to measure and see what it does.

    New question about oiling.
    The external feed gears have two drip lines fed from a reservoir in the quick change gearing quadrant gearbox and pump in the quick change gearbox, then oil wicks.

    img_3175-1-.jpg

    Someone before me removed the oil wicks. Parts manual shows slightly different version of this system and calls for two "Wicking-Oil, 1/4" x 5" lg." Mine uses 1/4" OD brass tubes, likely 1/8 or 5/32" wicking would be used, not sure if all felt or like a pipe cleaner?
    Tried cutting a 1/8" strip of 1/8" thick hard felt but that doesn't work, lots of short little fibers and not much strength.

    Where to get oil wicking, and any experience with these?
    Sutherland Felt Home - Sutherland Felt Company
    Bacon Felt - Boston Felt - America's First Felt Maker

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    My British built Powerturn has wicks in the tailstock to oil those ways. They are of kernmantle construction, an outside braided construction with linear internal fibers.

    A little google comes up with what I think is the right article: https://pepperell.com/round-cotton-l...wick-packaged/ I've got some on the way, so I'll let you know what I think.

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    By 1968, were they still using the canister type filter, or had they gone to a spin on filter?

  14. #52
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    large steel Purolator canister as used on lots of old tractors and industrial stuff.
    Original purolator cartridge filter number 33316-25.
    Napa filter replacement number 1092 and order optional gasket 5400. (comes with wrong gasket but two others
    are optional/extra)

    I had an older Powerturn with a small cast aluminum cartridge filter, this newer one looks like a better arrangement and much easier to get filters for.

  15. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbent View Post
    My British built Powerturn has wicks in the tailstock to oil those ways. They are of kernmantle construction, an outside braided construction with linear internal fibers.

    A little google comes up with what I think is the right article: https://pepperell.com/round-cotton-l...wick-packaged/ I've got some on the way, so I'll let you know what I think.
    Thanks,

    I presume different situations call for different wicking rates.. Some places extra oil isn't a bother, others make a mess if the wick is to effective.
    Any ideas there?

    I think my old PowerTurn had pipe cleaner type wicks for the feed gears, but can't say for sure they were original.

  16. #54
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    More on oil wicking

    McMaster Carr has white wool felt cord for oil wicking from 1/8" to 1/2" diameter under the following part numbers:
    8767K21
    8767K22
    8767K23
    8767K24
    8767K25
    They also have 5/32" x 6" cotton pipe cleaners by the 100 pack for about $3 under part number 7549T4.

    Gits and or Adams offers replacement "pipe cleaner" like wicking for their drip feed oilers.
    Gits catalog, Oil Feed Wicking on page 9 http://www.devcocorp.com/american/gits_2000catalog.pdf
    Or on Gits website Style WC Brazed | GITS Manufacturing

    451-100001 1/8” Wool Yarn Wicking
    461-300001 1/4” Wool Felt Wicking
    461-700001 1/8” Wire Core Cotton Wicking
    461-800001 1/4″ Wire Core Cotton Wicking

    Furthermore it seems they do use actual cotton pipe cleaners.
    This info from the pipe cleaner manufacturer Hewitt and Booth Wick Application Pipecleaner & Flexistem | Hewitt & Booth : Hewitt and Booth
    Adams LubeTech have been a customer since 2010... They use our pipe cleaners as wicks in their “Wick Feed Oil Cups”, and in their range of “Single Outlet Wick Feed Oilers”, to draw and transport oil through the devices. For this purpose, we have developed special unbleached cotton, 3mm diameter, 50m long coils, so they can cut it to their required lengths.

    "We found Hewitt and Booth on the internet, sampled a number of different pipe cleaners, found the one that works best and have stuck with it and will continue to do so!" -Colin Jones (Customer Services Manager, Adams LubeTech Ltd.)
    My L&S lathe uses pipe cleaner like wicking in several places in and around the feed gear box. The wire in a pipe cleaner seems useful in this case to help it hold shape unlike plain felt cord wicking.
    I've ordered stuff from McMaster but if their pipe cleaners don't look right I'll try to find somewhere to order the Gits 1/8" wire core cotton wicking.

  17. #55
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    Last week while looking into the oil drippers for the external feed gears I noticed a potential problem inside the first feed gear box on the left end of the headstock. In here the gears are shifted for the lever marked "1" and "8" on the front of the lathe.
    In one position a large gear meshes internally with the end of a smaller gear (like splines). On my lathe they did not mesh by much and I recalled a friend describing a problem of a similar lathe wanting to hop out of this gear position.

    Turns out the small gear is a press fit on a roller bearing and had been pushed further onto this bearing thus further from meshing in the large gear. I was able to pry it back into place.
    Read more about that problem and fix here:
    Lodge and Shipley Powerturn falls out of high feed gear

  18. #56
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    This weekend and a snow day Monday I spent a lot of time cleaning some of the headstock and fixing little things. Made a new rubber gasket for the top cover and filled headstock with fresh oil after flushing with diesel.

    So far best method of removing the old dried oil and coolant is a dull putty knife to scrape and flake it off pretty much preserving the original paint. Followed by wiping and scrubbing with alcohol on a rag and a small bronze tooth brush for any hard to get to or stubborn spots.
    Parts that can be removed clean up fine in parts washer with mineral spirits and a plastic or metal brush.
    For delicate stuff and name tags an old tooth brush with alcohol followed by a rag.

    img_3188.jpgimg_3192.jpg

    Decided to remove the feed gear box front cover primarily because it leaked as evidenced by the stains down the front of the machine (and no oil in it), and the "A-B-C" selector didn't want to go to the "C" position. Also to ensure the lube system is in good shape.
    I'm glad I did as there was plenty of sludge in the bottom and a few misdirected oil dripper lines. Wouldn't be surprised if some of the lines are clogged.

    img_3193.jpgimg_3194.jpg

    I still have a lot to do including the whole carriage to dissemble, clean, and check/rebuild the lube system as well as tailstock.
    Having 80% of the headstock cleaned up feels good, the bed and chip tray don't look so challenging now.. not looking forward to the carriage though.

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  20. #57
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    That's beautiful machine
    You could have hauled it home, wired it up and ran it but in short order those minor repairs would become major repairs. Old lathes that spend time sitting have to be investigated for clean lubrication and mechanical problems. You know that and you are doing a nice job. That's a low mileage machine that didn't get regular P.M.'s
    Very nice lathe.

  21. #58
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    Seems like it might be a good idea to make a sticky out of the Powerturn info........especially if it continues to grow. I may be in need of this if and when I get the Powerturn back, that I once had. I know that I'd feel better if I took the time to chase the oil lines out before using it.
    And yes, I can understand not looking forward to taking the carriage apart.

  22. #59
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    Thanks for the feedback,

    Studied the quick change gearbox some more last night.
    The lube pump works and the lines seem to be open, pump filter screens quite clogged with fibers and the fine one has some holes in it. If I recall from working on similar pumps it's made by Bijur and they have replacement parts including screens and the cork gasket to hold them in. Time to dig out that catalog, double check part numbers, and start making a list; already needed some sight windows and will need metering units for the carriage and apron lube system. The L&S parts manual list Bijur part numbers where applicable, mostly.

    img_3206.jpg

    The shifting trouble with "A-B-C" selector seems to be a non issue, it looks to shift fine with the cover removed.

    Before removing cover and looking into the feed or quick change gear box I noticed it had a stiff spot when turning the input gear by hand, I assumed this was the eccentric driven lube pump doing it's thing... it wasn't

    The first gear on left side of quick change gear cluster has fretting on some but not all teeth, and when turned through it gets stiff on these teeth meshing with the gear behind it.

    img_3200.jpg

    My best guess is the shaft is bent, I'll know more after removing it.
    The shaft is supported on a ball bearing fit in a steel bushing. This bushing is loose in the casting/housing.
    Obviously someone has been in here before by the hammer, chisel, and prybar marks in various places but that was a long time ago.

    img_3202.jpg

    Lastly for now the quick change tumbler lock bars with all the half holes in them, how are they adjusted?
    The eye-bolt and nuts on the left side set how far they come together. How far up the bottom bar comes sets how the tumbler meshes with the cluster gears.
    How far up or how tight should they come together? I'd guess because the top bar is accurately positioned with fitted shoulder bolts the bars should close up tight holding the tumbler pin firm to the top bar?
    This is not the case now and it looks to me like the gears could mesh more, the adjusting nuts on eye-bolt are loose. Again someone has been in here before me...

    img_3204.jpg

    To that last question I'd presume an actual repair or assembly manual would explain these sorts of adjustments. Might also cover Spindle bearing adjustments among other things "mechanics" shouldn't guess at.
    Has anyone ever seen or heard of an actual repair manual for the Powerturn??

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    To that last question I'd presume an actual repair or assembly manual would explain these sorts of adjustments. Might also cover Spindle bearing adjustments among other things "mechanics" shouldn't guess at.
    Has anyone ever seen or heard of an actual repair manual for the Powerturn??
    If you had the bearing numbers, you might be able to get information from the manufacturer on settings.................doubt there was a "repair manual" at least one for public consumption.


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