Pratt & Whitney 12B Profiler - How does it work? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citxmech View Post
    Looks like I'm going to be picking up that 12b I was looking at. Anybody have a good source for an operators and/or parts manual? s/n is No. 688, not sure of the year, but it has an electric motor from the factory me your email address so I'm assuming it's 40s or later.

    Post #2 says they are available

    I'll have to scan them, then I'll need you to private message me your email address

    S/N 688 is about 1943

    Made here - a neat place long gone

    USA Heavy Iron Disappearance

    ph

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  3. #22
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    PM Sent!

    Thanks so much.

    (It makes me sad thinking about how many incredible machines went to the smelter - glad I'm in a position to save a few for posterity.)

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citxmech View Post
    PM Sent!

    Thanks so much.

    (It makes me sad thinking about how many incredible machines went to the smelter - glad I'm in a position to save a few for posterity.)


    I'll see if some progress can be made on scanning these today. PM arrived, thanks

    On Edit: A bit less than 3Mb emailed
    Last edited by johnoder; 02-16-2020 at 09:41 AM.

  5. #24
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    Post pictures after you have it in hand. I couldn't find any on the web.

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    Will do.

    In addition to posting some pics here, once I get the machine settled, I will make an entry over at VM.org.

    It's surprising how little information there is on these things out there. I stumbled onto this machine by accident just scrolling through CL. I've probably got 10 or 12 vintage machining texts and none of them cover profilers either.

    I'm not sure when I'll get a chance to give this old girl the attention she needs, as I've got a few projects in line ahead of her. But I think she'll make a fine addition to the shop.

    PS A very warm thanks to John Oder for generously providing manuals for the machine. Now at least I won't be flying blind! =]

    PPS In answer to my own question, the stylus center line distance to the spindle (Pratt calls it a "former pin") is adjustable by approximately 1/16" by sliding the former pin block up or down on the angled pad on the side of the spindle sleeve. I can envision fabricating a stepped pin (or switchable collars) that could match common modern day cutter/drill sizes. We'll see.

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbent View Post
    Post pictures after you have it in hand. I couldn't find any on the web.

    Several here, older of course from this 1911 pub.

    Starting on page 184

    Precision tools : Pratt & Whitney Company : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

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    00d0d_ew9gxyjjhea_1200x900.jpg00w0w_2pxeutbq9px_1200x900.jpg00505_cm1xhdgus1c_1200x900.jpg

    Here are the CL pics posted by the owner for anybody who is interested.

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  10. #28
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    Interesting John, but no vertical shapers shown. Would they have been in a different book, or did they come later?

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    Have you seen this vid?: YouTube
    Pretty clean machine right there.
    BTW, What's the advantage of the vertical shaper vs. the more common horizontal type?

  12. #30
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    Found a vid with profilers in action: YouTube
    Pretty cool stuff. Looks like they're making BARs.
    I love that they're using them for the wood furniture as well.

  13. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citxmech View Post
    .
    BTW, What's the advantage of the vertical shaper vs. the more common horizontal type?
    Stuff like built in powered rotary table and tilting ram - and a way better view of what you are doing

    "Turning and boring" on mine

    p1000539sm.jpgp1000540sm.jpgp1000541sm.jpg

  14. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbent View Post
    Interesting John, but no vertical shapers shown. Would they have been in a different book, or did they come later?

    I'll suppose later - I do know there were earlier versions of the vertical shaper - as in Accuracy For Seventy Years from 1930. Here is a link to that pub

    https://www.prattandwhitney.com/imag...tory_book1.pdf



    Well, phooey - all I see in there are Model B versions - same as mine that was made in 1950. Clearly there are model A versions - have seen such for sale on CL over the years

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnoder View Post
    Stuff like built in powered rotary table and tilting ram - and a way better view of what you are doing

    "Turning and boring" on mine

    p1000539sm.jpgp1000540sm.jpgp1000541sm.jpg
    Fascinating! So the table functions kind of like really nice version of a Palmgren rotary cross Slide? Did they come with a dividing/indexing attachment? Seems like that would be the perfect tool for internal splines & gear teeth.

  16. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citxmech View Post
    Fascinating! So the table functions kind of like really nice version of a Palmgren rotary cross Slide? Did they come with a dividing/indexing attachment? Seems like that would be the perfect tool for internal splines & gear teeth.

    The 24" rotary table feeds left or right rotation. It is mounted in a saddle assy that feeds 25" in and out on the machine base and 25" side to side on the upper portion of the saddle assy.

    This one has the dividing attachment with a single 10" plate (don't know if there were others)

    Here is catalog page of the 8300 Lb 12" version

    12-inch-scan.jpg

  17. #35
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    Pretty sweet machine. A nice shaper is definitely on my tool bucket list. Rare as hen's teeth around these parts, unfortunately.

    Regarding the P&W 12B, was your motor 440v? The owner of the one I'm picking up wasn't sure if it was a dual voltage motor and I think he was planning on using a transformer before he lost interest.

    Assuming it's 440v only, I've got to come up with a plan to address that. It's only 1hp, so my 10hp RPC will handle it no problem, but the question would be whether to rewind, replace, or spring for a step-up transformer (which could come in handy down the road for other projects I suppose).

  18. #36
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    Don't recall. I think it went to scrap in the nineties

    Dual voltage can be "reconnected" for lower volts (in the "pecker head" on the motor itself), and appropriate KVA transformers can take care of those that are not dual voltage. (like 3 KVA for 1 1/2 HP - a recommendation by the transformer maker ACME)

    I had to "reconnect" motor (for lower volts) and replace magnetic starter on the vertical shaper. Replacing with one a little less old made it easy to get the right "heaters" or thermal overloads.

    p1000120sm.jpgp1000121sm.jpgp1000122sm.jpg

    I have to note how thoughtful of P&W to put a duplicate of motor tag OUTSIDE the machine

    Quote Originally Posted by Citxmech View Post
    Pretty sweet machine. A nice shaper is definitely on my tool bucket list. Rare as hen's teeth around these parts, unfortunately.

    Regarding the P&W 12B, was your motor 440v? The owner of the one I'm picking up wasn't sure if it was a dual voltage motor and I think he was planning on using a transformer before he lost interest.

    Assuming it's 440v only, I've got to come up with a plan to address that. It's only 1hp, so my 10hp RPC will handle it no problem, but the question would be whether to rewind, replace, or spring for a step-up transformer (which could come in handy down the road for other projects I suppose).
    Last edited by johnoder; 02-18-2020 at 07:31 AM.

  19. #37
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    Just got her home this evening. Here are some pics.

    Hmm... 440v multi-speed 3ph 50hz?
    20200222_171539.jpg
    20200222_171514.jpg

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    Four speed ,by reconnecting windings to vary the number of poles......will require the switchgear that goes with that,or you can simply connect up one way to a VFD.

  21. #39
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    Very interesting motor tag. The rpm's listed are for 60hz power, but the tag is labeled 50hz. I believe it will do just fine on American power.

  22. #40
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    Similar to my 3B Jig Bore by P&W - has a contactor in the large electrical enclosure for each of the four speeds. Runs great on a 3KVA ACME three phase dry type general purpose transformer that new set me back $230 in 2003 - worked fine on rotary and later Phase Perfect. Acme suggested the 3KVA for the 1 1/2 HP four speed. Acme also had no problem with using their step down as a step up - simply by wiring it up backwards. Zero issues in 17 years.


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