Q. re steering of an early trike

How was the steering managed, particularly on a curve, on this early trike? Were the 2 driving wheels coupled in some way to aid coordination between the two cyclists? Was only one of them responsible for the steering? Looks as though there would have been a good chance of neatly flipping the baby, unmoored to any siderails, into the river.

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I hope the photograph is visible. It seems that PM has decided, after years of making available a perfectly straightforward and understandable Manage Attachments utility, to move to a new format that is neither straightforward (to me) nor understandable (to me), and that requires guesswork (at least on my part). This comes on the heels of no longer being able to log on to PM in the automatic one-click way I used to enjoy, no longer being able to delete a just-posted post after realizing that I should be posting it in a different forum, and a few other things. Is it just me?

-Marty-

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trike.jpg

Marty Feldman said:

How was the steering managed, particularly on a curve, on this early trike? Were the 2 driving wheels coupled in some way to aid coordination between the two cyclists? Was only one of them responsible for the steering? Looks as though there would have been a good chance of neatly flipping the baby, unmoored to any siderails, into the river.

Click to expand...

Voice control, of course. Get it right, pleasant time abed might ensue between left and right independent power units.

Modern tech is still working on the voice control aspect. Folks nowadays expect to be f****d BY the cost of the motors and all. Not get to make babies with them.

I would expect some sort of lever interconnection between the wheels. Picture is too small to see if there is one.

Much more precise than "voice control" alone, but would work nicely in combination with it. And, would ensure that both are always pointed in the same direction, which would be "rather helpful" in operating the thing.

JST said:

I would expect some sort of lever interconnection between the wheels. Picture is too small to see if there is one.

Much more precise than "voice control" alone, but would work nicely in combination with it. And, would ensure that both are always pointed in the same direction, which would be "rather helpful" in operating the thing.

Click to expand...

Look closer. They ARE "always pointed in the same direction".

No steering here atall save direction and velocity of each wheel, much as Holt tractors or a Bobcat skid-steer uses. Whole contraption was easily light enough to pick up and POINT now and then, too.

Early solo two-wheelers had no steering, either. One periodically "re-aimed" else got creative as to use of bounce off cobblestone, Earth clod, or dried horse-turd to adjust the aim on-the move.

You are aware this one was a failure in the marketplace, yah?

The little person bundled up on the back wheel has control of a lever on it, much like a rudder on a sailboat. In the photo he must be napping due to the straightness of the road.

thermite said:

Look closer. They ARE "always pointed in the same direction".

No steering here atall save direction and velocity of each wheel, much as Holt tractors or a Bobcat skid-steer uses. Whole contraption was easily light enough to pick up and POINT now and then, too.

Early solo two-wheelers had no steering, either. One periodically "re-aimed" else got creative as to use of bounce off cobblestone, Earth clod, or dried horse-turd to adjust the aim on-the move.

You are aware this one was a failure in the marketplace, yah?

Click to expand...

Not at all likely to work, let alone work well. Reason being the "tail wheel". THAT could be steered easily, which would effectively steer the device, but it is not steerable in the pictured device.

Expanding the picture does not help much in terms of clearing up the workings, but certainly if the two front wheels were turned together, that would easily steer the trike. If they were rigidly mounted, with no steering, the thing would be unworkable, and if they were independent, it would be a real problem, although potentially usable.

There is no particular reason for the way the frame is constructed unless the front wheel is steerable, it is set up to have a steering bearing at the top, at least in the original single person form of the "penny-farthing" style. Even the early "Laufmaschine", which was the first form of bicycle, incorporated front wheel steering.

One strange form that was sucessful was Starleys "Coventry Lever Tricycle.....and with chain drive by Rudge as the Coventry Rotary Tricycle.....Famous names....Rudge introduced the ball bearing to England,and Starley invented the tensioned wire wheel.

JST said:

Not at all likely to work, let alone work well.

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"failure in the marketplace" is the point I've been trying to make, J. That very truism. It DID NOT WORK!

By no means the only transport scheme not well-thought out that vanished into oblivion, but there you have it.

Even the early "Laufmaschine", which was the first form of bicycle, incorporated front wheel steering.

Click to expand...

You class that "first form of bicycle" primarily because you looked for the genesis of the TYPE of bicycle we expect to see as founder of modern bicycles.

So you found what you sought. Which isn't even the oldest of EUROPEAN designs by nearly 400 years.

That puts you roughly 2,000 years past the origin of two-wheeled tandem design in China. Perhaps more, yet, if Egyptians or Ethiopians beat the Chinese to it.

As they may have done. There was some seriously good, and highly effective, technology in the flexible wooden chariot wheel, already well-proven by King Tut's era, after all. Seems such a wheel was also strong enough to end his life, actually.

The bicycle began as a narrow-trail cargo-carrier utilizing human muscle rather than animal.
Think narrow-passage wheelbarrow, with rear wheel added so the porters could merely balance, then push and/or pull, AND NOT have to dead-lift carry even half the weight of a barrow's load, leveraged, the whole route.

The ngua thep of the Vietnam war era differed from its remote Asian ancestors, Warring States period, Chinese timeline, by adding a seat and steering so it could make the "backhaul", empty, for the next load.

Its earliest Chinese ancestors, barter economy, not warfare, had carried cargo both directions. Cargo rode. Porters pushed. Porters did NOT ride.

Rather than wood and bamboo, access to relatively plentiful components of the modern era, such as steel tubing, motorcycle wheels and tires but not motorcycle engines allowed implementing a fleet of over half a MILLION units and 200,000 porters.

General Giap opened with overwhelming the French by massing supplies with antlike swarms of bicycle porters, two-per bike on average. His "Iron Horse" grew from 400 lb payload, that war, to a full 1,000 lb payload once he shifted to war with the Americans and their allies.

How the Bicycle Won the Vietnam War - BikeShopHub.com

Don't give a flying kazoo about those.... The penny farthing and direct ancestors had steering.

Someone had no sense....

My bike has steering

My high wheeler has steering, and a bell, but it does not have brakes. This makes for some interesting rides.
Tom from Mass

Brakes? BRAKES?? I don't need no stinking breaks.

.....

Just good medical coverage.

parts said:

My high wheeler has steering, and a bell, but it does not have brakes. This makes for some interesting rides.
Tom from Mass

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EPAIII said:

Brakes? BRAKES?? I don't need no stinking breaks.

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"Brakes are a fool's accessory." Bill Theissen, summer of 1962.

The LATE Bill Theissen, this particular one, sadly. Them's the breaks.

parts said:

My high wheeler has steering, and a bell, but it does not have brakes. This makes for some interesting rides.
Tom from Mass

Click to expand...

Tom - Is 100% of your braking done by backpedalling, coaster-brake style? Highwheelers can be had, I believe, with caliper (rim) braking.

-Marty-

I once rode an 1898 DeDion Bouton motor tricycle. It had a single high wheel in front and two small wheels in back. It would only go about 20 mph, which was fine with me. I had just ridden my 1941 741 model Indian, which is squirrely handling, from St. Louis to Medina, Ohio, so I was used to riding but that was one of the scariest rides of my life, way up in the air on a trike that felt like it was going to tip over any second. It used a surface carburetor that was wide open all the time and speed was controlled by spark advance.

By the late teens we had bikes like JD Harleys, which I would willingly ride on today's roads, illustrating how much progress there was in a couple of decades.

Bill

Hi Marty,
Yes, on mine, which is a modern reproduction, I put resistance on the pedals to try to slow down. It does not happen quickly. The pedals and crank arms are solidly attached to the axle. There is no free-wheeling. There is a lot of momentum to overcome in stopping. I usually ride it in relatively flat areas. In fact, I walk the bike down any large hills.
The wheel rims do not have the vertical walls like modern bikes. I have seen brakes that push a saddle shaped metal plate down onto the front tire. When I have more time, I plan to make such a brake system.( The tires are solid rubber and round in profile) Also, it seems to me that stopping the large wheel suddenly could land me on the street ahead fairly quickly, so inefficient brakes would be better.
Tom from Mass.

On some of the "ordinaries' the saddle was placed further back,and the pedals connected by a simple system of cranks,obviously to place more rider weight on the back wheel,and thus make braking somewhat safer.Im not a student of old bikes,but have known enthusiasts , who built their own.