What's new
What's new

Fischer sleeve valve engine & car.

john.k

Diamond
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Brisbane Qld Australia
Is anyone familiar with the Martin Fischer designed sleeve valve car engine ,production circa 1912-1914.,in Switzerland.......I have only been able to locate an Austrian patent,and an amendment to protect the method of sizing the sleeves.....I have read somewhere that the engine was license produced in the US pre WW1,but dont know by whom......the engine was unusual in having two half sleeves ,inlet and exhaust.......So,was it made in the US?
 
I believe the only sleeve valve engines built in the USA were under the Knight patent. Willys used a Knight sleeve-valve design in some of their car engines, but it was not built in large numbers. I do not recall ever reading or hearing about the Fischer patent sleeve valve designs being used in the USA.
 
I have a book on continental engines, it goes into some detail on the rotating sleeve valve.
Is this the kind you refer to ?
 
..written more for the "scotch-Yoke" system than the sleeve-valve, it does not describe where the sleeves were split.

…"The Knight split sleeve-valve engine designed for the K-D car (Knight-Davidson) in 1913 (no connection with Charles Yale Knight's double sleeve valve designs) by M.E. Knight, employed "scotch-yokes" but these were later replaced with conventional connecting rods and big ends."

Some Unusual Engines
LJK Setright
1975 London

Same era as you are looking for, but, probably not affiliated.

Sleeve valves were relatively common in that era, especially for aircraft engines.

Mike
 
I have a set of Books from the 1930 s on Automobile Engineering similar to this one where they discuss some aspects of the Knight sleeve valve engine .
Catalog Record: Automobile engineering; a general reference... | Hathi Trust Digital Library
I see there is one article here
Automobile engineering; a general reference work ... v.1. - Full View | HathiTrust Digital Library | HathiTrust Digital Library
and several more pages in this search that I didn’t kook at .
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt...2up;seq=66;start=1;sz=10;page=search;orient=0
A search found no mention for Fischer in this volume .
 
There is one Fischer 4 cyl car,and a sectioned salesmans sample part engine in the Swiss Museum in Locarno.......I have heard of a couple of engines in bits too...........Fischer is claimed to have made up to 400 sleeve valve engine cars before changing to more conventional designs.They even had plans for a six,which is the one claimed to have been built in the US........the Fischer engine was called "Magic Crescent Valve" ,and it seems had two crescent shaped half sleeves in a double bored cylinder.......the patent alteration refers to a simplified way of boring the sleeves in place in the block,obviously so that they fit,while using simple production methods.............I cant see the engine worked too well ,but at 4 to 1 compression ,gas leakage probably wasnt an issue........Unfortunately ,the online patent papers dont have the drawings,and I am unlikely to visit the Austrian patent office archive.
 
I have the biography of Sir Harry Ricardo, and in it, he mentions working with sleeve valve engines. No mention of the Fischer sleeve valve system, only the Knight system.

Years ago, a fellow who was then an older man told me about driving a car with the sleeve valve engine. He did not own the car, but was going on a long trip with the car's owner, so shared the driving. As he told it, the sleeve valve engine was quiet and a lot smoother running than the conventional-design auto engines in cars he had owned or driven. He said the sleeve valve engine ran fine and they were able to drive at what- for the times and road conditions- was a high rate of speed. He also said the sleeve valve engine left a cloud of blue oil smoke in its wake, and they had to check/top up the crankcase oil at each gas stop.

I have an old book on my shelf called "Dr. ************'s Automotive Encyclopedia", from the 'teens. It does cover the Knight sleeve valve engines. What struck me when I looked over that part of the book was the impossibility in getting a good seal on the sleeves, as well as the inevitablity of high oil consumption. At the time the sleeve valve engines were being developed, automobile engines and I/C engines in general were in their infancy. Looking at the old engine designs, there was little or no thought given as to improving the flow of air/fuel mixture into the cylinder and the exhaust out of it. Seeing a cross section of a Pierce-Arrow engine of that time period will confirm just how inefficient engine designs were for that time period. Most engines of that time period were flathead, and many designs looked like it was a matter of making the parts fit and hold together moreso than taking combustion chamber design or gas flow into account. I always get a chuckle at the "headless" side-valve engines of the early days. Some had nothing more than pipe plugs over each valve to enable machining of the valve seat and guide, as well as servicing the valves.

The sleeve valve engine was likely arrived at as a mean to improve gas flows in and out of the cylinders and get a more precise timing or control of the events happening in the cylinders. From what I have seen the sleeve valve engines were quite a bit more complex than the side valve engines of the same time period. Getting a reasonable seal between the walls of the sleeves and the cylinder wall and block was probably an impossibility in those days, and the best that could be hoped for was a "good close fit". With that "good close fit", the danger of the sleeves seizing was likely addressed by the use of mechanical lubricators- such as are used on compressors, steam engines, and large slow speed diesels.

Sir Harry Ricardo did quite a bit of research into improving the efficiency and performance of I/C engine for autos, planes, tanks, motorcycles and much else. He and his firm developed an improved combustion chamber for the side-valve (aka "flathead") engines, and it did wonders as far as improving performance and efficiency. The "Ricardo Head" was patented, and companies bought licenses to use it, including some US auto makers. I think once Ricardo had begun research and improvements to combustion chamber design and related design such as manifolds, valves, etc, the need for the sleeve valve engines was reduced if not eliminated. Ricardo's firm continued their work into the era of overhead valve engines and may still be in business. I will pull the biography of Sir Harry Ricardo off the shelf tonight and see what I turn up in a re-read about sleeve valve engines.
 
I had a six cylinder 1929 Willys Knight,and reconditioned the engine,including hardchroming some parts and flame spraying the liners with babbit.......I was a engine machinist at Repco,and the job was a "foreigner".......I dunno what it would have cost,but no expense was spared.The engine ran beautifully,but used bulk oil...like 5 gallons in 200 miles.........all the old timers at Repco had warned me about touching a Knight engine.....fortunately that was when a bit of smoke wasnt a big deal......The car is still running ,and the engine hasnt needed any attention ,and the ports carboned up and the smoke stopped.(sort of)
 
To add to what Joe wrote...
I understand that the plethora of alternative valve arrangements which turned up about 1910 (and were mainly dead by 1914) attempted to solve issues with valve metallurgy, noise, wear and problems with springs as engine speeds and temperatures increased. Many of these issues were solved very quickly with the introduction of chrome-nickel steels from 1912, better valve train design and very careful selection of materials and finished parts. The technological advances of the Great War seem to have solved a lot of these issues and more, and noise seemed to be the only issue remaining after the armistice.
The noise issue or lack thereof was a big selling point for the "Silent Knight" engine and was licensed to Daimler and Panhard for this reason; other manufacturers of the period responded by making tappet and rocker covers with sound deadening and double walls.

The irony of any of the alternative valve systems is that they essentially replace one set of problems with another and even 100 years later are not in wide use, mainly because of metallurgical and lubrication problems.

JohnK, would you provide the patent numbers please and I'll see if I can find the documents. If it was a Swiss inventor then almost certainly he filed for a Swiss patent in addition to any others but Swiss patents can be very hard to find.
 
Google lists Austrian patent # AT56058B......date of issue 10/25/1912.

This is the drawing from the Austrian Patent. The remainder of the patent is two pages in german.
AT56058B.pdf.jpg

Fischer also held FR428733 (A), FR15880 and GB191212161 (A) for features of the engine
The first Swiss patent I can find that relates is 1912.

In 1912, 1914 and 1915 Fischer took out US patents for his engine as inventor, Fischer Motor Corporation USA as applicant so it is possible he was trying to find a third party to manufacture in the USA, especially with rumblings of war on the horizon in that part of Europe. He also appears associated with the "Motor and Gear Improvement Company", also stateside.
Later patents return to Switzerland and move into other areas, which would suggest that the venture was not commercially viable.
 

Attachments

  • AT56058B.pdf.jpg
    AT56058B.pdf.jpg
    9.3 KB · Views: 121
Martin Fischer was a watchmaker ,not surprising in Switzerland,and appears also to have been an inventor.........I started this search because one of his descendants wrote to a car mag asking if anybody remembered him,or his car.....I am surprised the engine worked at all,let alone ,well enough for hundreds to be built.......apparently ,the crescent valve motor ceased production in 1915,in favour of a conventional motor......The descendant says the car plant was bought by an armaments group,no doubt supplying the central powers with weapons was quite lucrative,and that the group planned to start car production after the war,but the flood of cheap mass produced cars stopped them.
 








 
Back
Top