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Really cool old photo from the Railroad industry

D.Minnich

Cast Iron
Joined
Mar 30, 2021
Location
Cleveland area
My Parents divorced back in the early 90's and both re-married. My mother married a really nice guy that worked for the steel industry and he told me once that his father worked for the railroad. Tragically my step father died of a heart attack in the late 90's. Going through his attic with my mother, we came across a toolbox belonging to my step dad's father...it had some old tools in it that were in poor condition, but the Gerstner tool box was really nice and my mother gave it to me. Wanting to clean it up I removed the drawers and found this gem of a photo underneath one of them.

Steam Engine Plant.jpg
 
You have found a great old photo of a railroad 'backshop'. The backshop was where locomotives were brought for 'major shopping' (heavy repairs, rebuilds). The style of the engine cabs and stacks would be found on locomotives from around 1900-1920. The backshop where the photo was taken was quite large, so was part of one of the bigger railroads.

The fact the photo survived underneath a drawer in a neglected toolbox is quite remarkable, and it is great that you found the photo and posted it here. As the old saying goes, 'dead men tell no tales'. Your late step=father might have been able to shed some light onto where the photo was taken since his father worked for a railroad. At this point in time, using online searches and the like, I suppose you could look up your late step-father's father and get some 'vital statistics'. This might turn up where the man lived. If you knew the town where the man lived, it might then be possible to figure out which railroad he worked for and where the backshop was located.

The backshops were amazing places. A popular backshop photo often showed the bridge cranes lifting (or lowering or moving) a steam locomotive, minus its wheels, often over the tops of other locomotives lined up for work. A backshop like the one in your photo would be capable of making and repairing most of the parts on a steam locomotive. Major boiler repairs, including forming new 'sheets' (steel plate formed to fit as parts of a locomotive boiler is referred to as a 'sheet', with names such as 'front tube sheet', 'throat sheet', 'inner door sheet', etc) . Boilers were torn apart for repair and alteration in the backshops. "wheel sets' (an axle with a pair of wheels on it) would be reconditioned in special 'wheel lathes'. The variety of work handled in a good sized back shop was quite extensive. Many skilled trades worked in the backshop- machinists, boilermakers, and blacksmiths were the most common, with tinsmiths/sheet metal workers, steamfitters, and air brake mechanics also working there. Your step father's father could have been a machinist in the backshop if he had a Gerstner chest.

When diesel locomotives took over, the need for the large backshops evaporated. The railroads were not long in closing many of the backshops. This was happening in the 1950's-60's. The photo you posted was taken some time earlier judging by the design of the steam locomotives.
 
D. Minnich ,
Thanks for sharing your picture and to Joe Michaels for his reply .
For those who may be interested there are descriptions of similar shops in articles an pictures on the Old Time Trains site.
Here is one judging by the appearance of the locomotives that would be from about the same time period as your picture.
Old Time Trains
Old Time Trains
Angus Shops Montreal Quebec .
Old Time Trains
There are several others if you use the site search engine and search for shops.

Jim
P.S. a more extensive list from the Old Time Trains site can be found here.
C.N.R. Facilities
Old Time Trains
C.P.R. Facilities
Old Time Trains
 
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Thanks a bunch for the history info. Very cool
I always wondered about those large parts that look like derby hats that get mounted on the top of the locomotive...could those have been deep drawn back then or were they casted? Another thing I found interesting is if you look up in the rafters by the windows...there is a guy standing way up there.
 
Similar period - 1900 - outside Brooks plant in Dunkirk, NY. One of my favorite machines - 85 tons machined entirely with carbon tool steel cutting tools. And by the way loaded with STEEL castings

Scan 02.jpg

We can imagine the old coot is one of the "Bulls" at the place
 
D. Minnich:

The 'parts that look like derby hats' on top of a steam locomotive boiler are known as 'domes'. One dome is known as the 'steam dome'. It is a cylindrical projection off the boiler, made as part of the actual boiler shell (known as a 'pressure vessel'). The steam dome was used to collect the steam from within the barrel (the horizontal cylindrical portion of the boiler). The 'flashing' action where steam bubbles come off the water within a boiler is quite violent, and droplets of water are initially carried up with the steam. The danger is the droplets of water could be carried along into the engine's cylinders ( a condition known as 'priming'). If enough water is carried into an engine's cylinders, the result could be damage in the form of a knocked-off cylinder head, or a bent piston rod and broken rings. The steam dome was a collection point for the steam and gave a bit of space for water carried up with the steam to drop back down into the boiler barrel. In addition, on most steam locomotives, particularly older ones, the throttle valve was located up in the steam dome. Atop the steam dome there is a bolted cover. This is a manway and gives access into the boiler barrel (gotta be a very limber individual and not claustrophobic).

The steam dome would be made using the same riveted construction as the boiler. The 'derby hat' was a sheet-metal cover. A locomotive builder would deep-draw these sheet metal dome jacketings. A backshop might well have sheet-metal workers who could repair a dented sheet metal dome cover. In the worst case, they would 'raise' a cover out of flat sheet steel by hand hammering methods. Once oxyacetylene welding took hold, making a dome jacketing became a lot easier as it could be pieced together.

The other dome on top of a steam locomotive boiler was the 'sand dome'. This was usually an iron casting with a top cover. It 'saddled' onto the boiler barrel, but had no connection into the actual barrel. The sand dome was sometimes called a 'sand box'. It held a quantity of sand. On either side of the sand dome, at its base, were 'air sanders'. These were 'ejector' type devices which used compressed air (from the braking system) to convey the sand from the dome down thru pipes. These pipes ('sand pipes') were used to shoot the sand ahead of behind the drive wheels, onto the rails. The sand was used to improve traction or stop wheel slip on the rails.
A steam locomotive relies on 'adhesion' between the tires on the drive wheels and the rails to transfer the power to pull itself and a train behind it. Adhesion is an interesting sub topic. The top of the rails is not entirely flat and the drive wheel tires have a slight taper to them. If we recall out early schooling in geometry, we may remember learning that the theoretical contact area between a circle and a line tangent to it is a point. In practicality, such as considering a steam locomotive drive wheel (known as a 'driver') tire contacting a rail, there is not much area. Get a rail that is wet or greasy and a train that needs to be started from a standstill, and it is almost a sure bet the drivers will slip. Sand is applied to increase traction, since adhesion by itself won't break the train loose. Hence, the sand dome on a locomotive.

BTW: engine terminals and roundhouses usually had a separate 'sand house'. This was a building with a hopper where sand was stored to fill the domes. In the sand house, there was usually a 'sand stove'. This was a large coal fired stove with a round cast iron hopper on top of it, and often some sort of agitator. This hopper on the sand stove was kept filled with sand and the agitator was cranked to 'turn over the sand'. In smaller engine terminals, the sand from the sand stove was moved in buckets to fill the sand domes on the engines. The sand needed to be dry, since wet or damp sand would pack together in the dome and the air sanders would not pull it in and move it down to the drivers. The engineers had air sander valves in the engine cabs. The valves had two positions: to put sand in front of or behind the driver treads depending if the engine was moving forward or backing.

In larger engine terminals, the sand house was located up high and there was a sand spout pipe. This allowed the hostlers (men who moved locomotives in and around the yards for service between runs) to fill the sand domes quickly and easily.

Another bit of bygone lore: hoboes and other persons riding the rails would often find the sand houses in cold rainy or winter weather as a place to warm up or sleep.

The sand domes had a cast iron cover that lifted off to allow the domes to be filled with sand. If the sand got wet or damp, there was a job to scoop the sand out of the some and take a wire and try to clear things so the sanders could work. Nowadays, a product known as "Black Beauty"- a crushed slag product used for abrasive blasting- is often used in place of sand on some locomotives. Black Beauty does not hang up or 'bridge' the way damp sand does. It is also a lot sharper than 'bank run' sand, and gives a 'better bite' on the rails.
 
My Parents divorced back in the early 90's and both re-married. My mother married a really nice guy that worked for the steel industry and he told me once that his father worked for the railroad. Tragically my step father died of a heart attack in the late 90's. Going through his attic with my mother, we came across a toolbox belonging to my step dad's father...it had some old tools in it that were in poor condition, but the Gerstner tool box was really nice and my mother gave it to me. Wanting to clean it up I removed the drawers and found this gem of a photo underneath one of them.

View attachment 321254[/QUOT
wow back when the u.s.a. made real things and you worked or you staved no faking your way through life back then the workers would not put up with the lot of losers we have today
 
I forwarded this to a friend of mine that is quite the authority on railroads. He estimated that it was from the 1900 - 1910 time frame and was sure that it was a builder and not a RR shop. Do you have any idea what year your step grandfather was born? and also where was he from / where did he grow up?
 
I forwarded this to a friend of mine that is quite the authority on railroads. He estimated that it was from the 1900 - 1910 time frame and was sure that it was a builder and not a RR shop. Do you have any idea what year your step grandfather was born? and also where was he from / where did he grow up?

No...but after getting that cool history lesson from Joe, I am intrigued to try to find out more info on my step grandfather...if I do, I will share
 
I forwarded this to a friend of mine that is quite the authority on railroads. He estimated that it was from the 1900 - 1910 time frame and was sure that it was a builder and not a RR shop. Do you have any idea what year your step grandfather was born? and also where was he from / where did he grow up?

if you just look at the first locomotive, it has clearly seen service, and wouldn't be out of place in a backshop, but the other three are looking pretty spiffy to be in for repairs, so I am leaning towards manufacturer.

also, the perpendicular dead end layout seems more for assembly of new locomotives, as usually the tracks are longitudinal in a backshop it seems, to allow pulling rolling gear through the shop.
 
Some Railways also built new locomotives along with the repairs and major rebuilds in their shops .

Canadian Pacific's Angus Shops linked in my earlier post was one of them so depending on the location that could also be the in D. Minnich's picture as well.

Given a bit of time someone may come along and recognize the locomotives from some distinctive feature .
If the shop was in Ohio it could be Lima although they are better known for their Shay Locomotives they did build other types .

Internet Archive Search: publisher:"Lima, Ohio : Franklin Type and Printing Company"
Here are some links to locomotive builder info. that I shared with some others a while ago that could perhaps yield some clues as to the picture's location .
Baldwin
Baldwin Locomotive Works; : Baldwin-Lima-Hamilton Corporation. [from old catalog] : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
Illustrated catalogue of locomotives : Baldwin Locomotive Works : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
Brooks
A catalogue descriptive of simple and compound locomotives : Brooks Locomotive Works, Dunkirk, N.Y : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
Rodgers
The Rogers locomotive company, Paterson, New Jersey. : Rogers Locomotive and Machine Works. : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator:"Rogers+Locomotive+and+Machine+Works."

https://archive.org/search.php?query=subject:"Locomotives"
It has been some time since I looked at it but I think the P.R.R. Shops in Altoona also built new locomotives
https://archive.org/details/cu31924072688827/page/n7/mode/2up
Shops chapter starts here
https://archive.org/details/cu31924072688827/page/n174/mode/1up?view=theater
Jim
 
If you look carefully at the upper beam you can see the four copper wires that provided the electrical power to the overhead crane. Once place I worked at had a similar set up. One day one of the wires developed a kink somehow.

We sent for a team of specialists to straighten out the kink. The “ specialists “ began warming the wire up with a small blow torch without first relaxing the tension on the wire ! They had at least turned off the power first. The wire parted and the hot ends came flying down to ground level. My pals coat was hanging on the outside of his locker and one end of the wire burnt a hole in it.

Regards Tyrone.
 
No...but after getting that cool history lesson from Joe, I am intrigued to try to find out more info on my step grandfather...if I do, I will share

I noticed that your picture is labeled "steam engine plant" Was steam engine plant written on the back of the photo?
If so that would point to a manufacturer rather than repair shop.
 
If you want a better idea of what a locomotive repair shop looked like here's a great video. https://youtu.be/Ag8Xew4R2fo too bad good color film really came out 15 to 20 years too late to capture the glory days of steam railroading.

I disagree with the comments above that railroad shops were long tracks and didn't do things lined up like the photo shown as I have seen many photos of shops in that arrangement over the years. I would say by the photo probably hard to tell if it's a builder or repair shop.

What it would have been like to have gotten a tour of one of the great steam shops in the day of steam. I was able to see the modern day equivalent which is located in Atlanta Georgia at Hartsfield Airport where Delta maintains their airplanes. I got a 3hr walking tour of that facility once by one of their plant machinery mechanics. After walking around for 3hrs he told us we'd only seen about 1/2 the facility! What a cool trip. Tons of machine shops and all sorts of teardown and rebuild areas. I was told but we couldn't get to see it that they even had a heavy hot forging facility somewhere in the property which I really wanted to have seen in action.

On a side note, If you get a choice always pick Delta airlines they treat their employees great and are the last of the major airlines who do work on that scale. Lots of the major airlines these days are sending their planes to China for heavy overhaul.

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
 








 
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