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Reed-Prentice lathe. What to look for before buying

RyanY

Plastic
Joined
Aug 4, 2016
Hi I'm doing some trading with a guy for a lathe he has. It's a reed-prentice with 14" chuck and it has about a 3foot bed on it. Hole thing is like 8' long. There's no model number just serial number. Anyway what should I look for before I do the trade if any? It has a 3 phase motor plus he's going to send me a 220v motor. I'm going to leave the 3 phase on it and just put a VFD on it I think. That should work just fine correct? Here is the eBay item number 261057784425.
It's a 5hp motor on it. Lathe serial number is 23111. Any idea of the year? Says 560 RPM on it. I would put up a pic but don't see how to do it. I suppose I have to use photobucket on here?
Thanks.
 
My 10th edition of _Serial Number Reference Book_ indicates s/n 23111 was built in 1943. This reference has been said to contain errors, just as a warning. This is about all I know about the Reed Prentice line of lathes. Could you check the ebay number you give? In my hands it brings up a Chinese made VFD.
David
 
Contains errors???
Yes it is a Chinese VFD. They seem to be pretty good. Is there an American one for about the same money? Bet you look inside and the say made in China. I am not a full time machinist just wanted to turn sone parts if I need to
 
With your help in the dating of the machine I did find a thread on here saying the head stock gears go bad.
 
Re-read your original post and I realize I mis-interpreted it. Somehow I got the idea you were getting this lathe off ebay and so was expecting to see a Reed Prentice lathe, not the VFD.

I've come across occasional statements on this forum to the effect that _Serial Number Reference Book_ contains errors so I like to make that caution when using it as a source. I haven't found any errors myself, based on a rather small sample size.
David
 
So the lathe says rpm of 560. Now if I have that VFD would that make it go faster or hurt the machine if I turn it up?

Ok next I need help picking the correct tooling to machine the ID of a shaft

NEXT the correct tool to machine the OD of a shaft.

THEN do I need HSS or what kind of tooling to run with this lathe

I have only ran a lathe 2 times so this is why I ask. Thank you for the reply
 
If it has plain bearings in the spindle, I'd be careful increasing the RPM. If it has roller bearings, I think it would be fine.
 
Can I guy switch the bearings out for new ones or will they be hard to find. I'm sure it spins fast enough just seeing if there were options
 
No what?? No you can't switch them out or no they are not hard to find? What if one wears out what do then
 
No what?? No you can't switch them out or no they are not hard to find? What if one wears out what do then

It's a difference in technology. If the spindle had roller bearings it's like any modern lathe and could likely handle 1500 RPM with no issues.

If it has "plain bearings" it's a bronze or even cast iron bearings that are just metal on metal sliding bearings. Those have a limited RPM range. If you over speed them they get hot and seize or worse.
 
Reed and Prentice built a solid engine lathe, not top of the heap as a lathe builder, but good lathes. I ran them in various shops, and eventually bought one built around 1951 for our railroad shop. R & P lathes were known for having softer bedways than most, so a heavily used R & P lathe may be like the ridge line of an old barn roof, or an old horse's back.

In the geared headstock of the R & P lathes, at least on the one I bought, there is an oil circulating system which used a felt pad as a filter. Kind of hard to get at, but it needs periodic cleaning or replacement.

Overall, the R & P lathes were rugged machine tools. They were beasts as far ability to take a heavy hogging cut. I bought a 16" x 42" R & P "heavy toolroom engine lathe". The weight was somewhere in the neighborhood of 5500 lbs. I chucked a piece of alloy steel (probably a 4140 or 4340) about 6" diameter in the R & P lathe, and with a lantern toolpost, toolholder, and HSS toolbit, began taking hogging cuts under heavy feed. That lathe pared off 0.100" from each side (0.200" total) like nothing. I kept loading the tool with heavier cuts, and finally, the toolholder acted as a lever and pivotted the lantern toolpost.

The gears in the headstock of an R & P lathe are heavy, basic spur gearing as I recall. I always felt the R & P lathes were the basic oldtime classic US iron, a kind of generic geared head engine lathe which came out in the 'thirties and was made with some differences but overall similarities by the major players for WWII. R & P, Lodge and Shipley, Sydney, and Monarch all produced geared head engine lathes of similar overall appearance for the War Production Board. Internally, there were differences in the headstock gearing, but outwardly, there were more similarities. These old lathes had a lot of iron in them. They were workhorses, really rigid machine tools up to some heavy work if kept reasonably adjusted. They were also incredibly "user friendly". I first ran R & P lathes while a student a Brooklyn Technical HS, and then in machine shops that I worked in after school and summers. Aside from the relatively soft bedways, I do not recall any other shortcomings for the R & P lathes.

The ones built for WWII most usually had the "long taper spindle" nose, and were built with roller bearing headstock. I'd be a bit cautious as to bumping up the spindle speed. Aside from the lube system in the headstock, the balancing of the gearing on the spindle and the chucks are going to be an issue as you increase spindle speed. R & P, as I recall, had coarse spur gearing in the headstock. Not what you'd want to run too much faster than designed speed. These were workhorses, and like a draft horse, these lathes were built for heavy pulling, not speed. They were designed and built in an era when High Speed Steel toolbits and HSS drills were the norm and cemented carbide tools were just coming on the scene. A R & P lathe with a 14" chuck and 560 rpm top speed is designed to handle larger diameter work, and heavier jobs. It is not meant to handle small work on the order of 1" and under in diameter, not that it can't. It is just a heavy lathe for larger work. Good old lathes, just do not expect a modern lathe or a toolroom grade machine tool. I got plenty of good work within a thousandth or two on the old R & P lathes, did plenty of boring and thread cutting on them, and never had a complaint.
 
Thank you for the reply. I've wanted a lathe for awhile just for tinkering around and now I'm building a CNC plasma table and need some eccentric bushings turned and the guy that I've been buying all of my steel from has a lathe so I told him he could turn them for me. I told him I really wanted to do it my self I told him but didn't have a lathe yet and to my supprise he said " I'll let you use mine". SWEET I said. Then the other day when I was in there he said to me, you know I forgot I have a lathe at home I haven't used so if you want to buy it I guess I'll sell it. I went to his place the other night and asked if he would trade for a season of snow removal and he said sure so that's how I'm ending up with this. 😃
 
Here is some RP bragging from '31. This was when they had threaded spindles (your '43 has a L1 spindle nose)

Check out the .112 IPR feed at 3/4" depth of cut AT 38 RPM - built to pull, not run fast

Check out the one with no tail stock support - its just screwed on the spindle nose
 

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Funny how much different things used to be. Even those simple looking parts appear to be forgings. I can't remember the last time I saw a dog plate in use.

~30 RPM. Today we would start at 1000+.
 
Ok next I need help picking the correct tooling to machine the ID of a shaft

NEXT the correct tool to machine the OD of a shaft.

THEN do I need HSS or what kind of tooling to run with this lathe I'm assuming my tooling needs to be HSS according to the one post that was made
 
I came up in the era where the old workhorses like that R & P, or the Hendeys or LeBlonds were in common use. High Speed Steel toolbits were also in common use, particularly for form tools. I never transitioned into the more modern shops, as I got my degree and went to work on powerplant construction, then as an erector, and then spent 32 years with the NY Power Authority. The result was my machine shop experience was often based on one-off jobs, repair jobs, and very heavy machine work associated with hydro turbines and generators. Having a lathe capable of higher spindle speeds was never in issue in the world I worked in. Having lathes with enough iron in them to stand up to the work we did was what counted, so we bought used LeBlond lathes rather than new imports.

Using high speed steel toolbits on an old lathe like the R & P, you can do a surprising amount of work and it will be good work. 'Ginning up the speed of an old lathe like an R & P geared head lathe is not something I'd do without some careful inspection of the headstock internals, particularly the lubrication system. As I said, the gearing in those R & P lathes is likely heavy spur gears, not meant for high speed running. Add a chuck that is also not statically balanced, and the makings of some heavy vibration are all there if the lathe is run at much more than maximum design speed.

In my world, we still deal with forgings and castings. In addition, we machine weldments, or worn parts built up with welding. I think nothing of building up a worn shaft or fabricating a part using "stick" welding (DC SMAW). I clean the welds with air grinder and wire wheel or run a needle scaler over them, then the parts go into the lathe. On the railroad, we used to take chunks of old freight car axles and make parts and tools out of them. We'd cut a chunk out of an old freight car axle with a torch, clean it up with a grinder and wire wheel, snag off the slag and put it into the R & P lathe. We eventually put a Phase II knockoff of an Aloris or Dorian toolpost on that R & P, as the lantern toolpost and regular tool holder would not stay in place on heavier cuts.

The apron on an R & P lathe has (if I recall correctly), an oil pump that is actuated when the carriage moves. I'd suggest flushing the apron with kerosene or diesel fuel to get rid of any old oil and sludge before putting the lathe into service. I'd do the same thing with the headstock. We never had a manual for our R & P lathe. I got a 5 gallon pail of Tractor Hydraulic Oil, which is an ISO 46 oil, classified also as a DTE Light oil. It is a straight weight mineral oil with additives for corrosion inhibiting and antifoaming. No detergents, no antiwear additives- this latter being bad news for some of the yellow metal bearings.
We run Tractor Hydraulic Oil in the old R & P as well as other similar geared head machine tools of that same era. We run way lube or bar-and-chain oil in the apron.

These lathes are like old draft horses. Made for slow heavy pulling, and at their age, a little loose and maybe a little swaybacked, but still have plenty of work left in them. The trick is learning to work with an old lathe. Bedway wear often looks worse than it actually is. If you take a lathe with a bed having ridges worn in the area near the headstock and turn a piece of stock stuck out of the chuck, you will be surprise at how little taper there actually is. Doing the trigonometry to calculate what the "drop" of the bedways does to the taper of the work will show it takes a lot more wear to produce anything too serious. As I said, these are old lathes, and at this point, an old R & P, unless it lived in a prototype shop or a similar type of environment, will have had 60+ years of use and its maintenance history as far as being kept cleaned and lubed is anyone's guess. I would not expect toolroom grade work from this kind of lathe, but I would take it as-is, and have no problem turning out work within a thousandth or two. Learning to work with the lathe, working with a cross feed which might have 0.050" or more backlash, and a worn set of bedways, you can do some fine work. Learning to work within the design envelope of these old lathes is the other piece of the puzzle. Do not expect to run indexable carbide tooling at the speeds and feeds modern lathes would run at. Using HSS toolbits and drills, you can remove plenty of metal plenty fast. And, with HSS toolbits, you can stone a radius on them and get a fine surface finish, or grind a form tool or threading tool without having to order special inserts or having a diamond grinder on hand. A bench grinder and oil stone are all you need to grind and stone HSS toolbits.

I'd look for anything obviously missing or broken off. Handlevers are often the victims of careless moving of the machine tools, or some other mishandling in the shops. ALl too often, I've seen old machine tools with "stumps" of broken off levers, with the fractures covered with years of grunge. People resort to vise grips and makeshifts on some of these situations. A compound rest ball crank goes missing, so a lathe dog winds up on the compound rest screw. These are makeshift repairs, and the lathes keep on being used. Or, the busted levers are brazed together and about twice as much braze metal as needed is laid on. Works fine, just doesn't look so good. More important is to be sure all the gearing is intact and working properly- in the headstock, quick change box and in the apron. R & P used a multiple plate clutch, and if you can try the lathe under power, make sure this engages and disengages properly. I've never had to adjust one of those clutches. Got lucky with old lathes, I guess.

I am sure, if you want a solid workhorse of a lathe capable of heavier work, the R & P will be fine. Stuff like turning a brake rotor, facing an auto engine flywheel, or machining built up repairs or boring an occasional compressor or engine cylinder are all the kinds of jobs the R & P will handle quite well.
 
I'd recommend High Speed Steel toolbits for the R & P lathe. You can get a Phase II (or similar) Chinese knockoff of an Aloris or Dorian quick change toolpost and toolholders. You will need to mill the tee nut (you get an oversized tapped plate with a new quick change toolpost) to fit the tee slot in the compound rest.

3/8" square HSS toolbits are plenty good, M2 grade for most work, HSS with cobalt if you are getting into machining tougher alloy steels or stainless steels.

A boring bar which can hold a HSS toolbit is what is used for boring work, or for smaller work, I grind a one-piece boring tool from a HSS toolbit blank.

I have a 3/4" diameter boring bar, made by Williams, which takes 1/4" square HSS toolbits. I use it with an Armstrong boring bar holder (the round kind which takes a number of different size boring bars). I bought the Armstrong boring bar holder on ebay last year. Machined a new tee nut plate to fit the tee slot on the compound of my 13" LeBlond lathe, machined some off the lower section of the Armstrong boring bar holder to put the boring tools approximately on the centerline of the spindle. I have a number of ancient round boring bars which take various sized toolbits. These are handy, and I have hogged some heavy cuts when boring out jobs. On the old R & P, I once had to bore out a chunk of axle steel to make a bushing for part of a small railroad locomotive's axle bearing. I used that same style boring bar, and was taking some heavy cuts, HSS toolbit, no problem. Cleaned things up to within a thousandth of where I needed to be. Trick to boring bars is learning to allow for the spring of the bar, the last few cuts are made without any further in-feed, just letting the spring of the bar take the cut. When you get no more chip, the boring bar is not deflecting and has done all the cutting it is going to do unless you set up for another cut. I've finished jobs to final inner diameter by miking the bore after each spring cut, never adding anymore depth to the cut.

HSS toolbits are inexpensive, easy enough to grind, and each end of a toolbit blank can be ground into a different style of tool- so you get two for one.
You can grind the HSS tools to make turning tools, threading tools, or form tools for jobs like O ring grooves or to put a fillet (radius) at the root of a shoulder (where a smaller diameter meets a larger one, a sharp corner there = a stress riser and potential failure point on shafting and similar). A small "India Medium Hard" oil stone will do wonders at honing the cutting edges and stoning small radius' on the noses or tips of some of the toolbits. Taking a freshly ground toolbit with a sharply pointed nose or tip and getting into a roughing cut can mean a broken tip and, while the toolbit WILL cut, the finish is ragged and the toolbit life is shortened. Stone a small radius on the tip, and stone the cutting edge (stoning the side and top surfaces), and you will be amazed at the ease with which that toolbit cuts, as well as the surface finish. A well ground and stoned HSS toolbit in an old worn lathe can produce a finish that looks like it was precision ground, no polishing with emery cloth needed. Every oldtime machinist or toolmaker had coffee cans and cigar boxes filled with HSS toolbits, many ground for special jobs, threading tools, grooving tools, tools ground to turn soft brass or harder alloy steels or cast irons. I have toolbits I ground as a kid nearly 50 years ago, some reground a few times, some just there as a kind of reminder of how I did things as a kid (grinding with lots of "facets" and "rock" to it rather than the nice clean faces I came to grind soon after). I've got handfuls of HSS toolbits in lots of tools or used machine tools, and reground them to suit whatever I needed. Get some HSS toolbit blanks, get the Southbend book "How to Run a Lathe" or some similar work dealing with basic instruction in the operation of engine lathes. Learn the principals of why a toolbit cuts, try grinding one and see how it cuts when you set up a job in the lathe. Experience is the best teacher, and you have the best gifts imaginable in the form of your mind, eyes, and hands. Learning to recognize why a toolbit is, or is not, cutting, or if it is cutting properly will come with experience. Do not worry if the angles you grind a HSS toolbit at are not exact- unless of course you are grinding threading tools. As long as the geometry of the toolbit is correct, even if the angles are not what "the books says", the toolbit will cut handily. The other trick is to grind the toolbits so the ground surfaces are continuous, free from "facets" or dips and dives from hitting the grinding wheel in any number of different positions.
 
Hey thanks joe nice write up. I don't think there were any broken parts that I could see on it. It's very dirty from the owner spraying it down with oil to keep it from rusting so next time I go look at it again I'll be sure to look close at it. Thanks again
 








 
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