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Repair of a broken cast iron table bracket

rj1939

Stainless
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Location
southern il
I had a broken cast piece from a wood bandsaw given to me to repair.................Some ham handed loader operator broke it in the process of moving it. The piece allows the table to tilt, so has crescent shaped on either end and a small machined surface to mount it. To line it up, I bolted it to a 4 inch pipe, since there are only three places machined, this seemed like the most accurate.
I built a fire and got some coals going to preheat and post heat............brazed the portions I could get to. I had thought about leaving it at that, but now am reconsidering, there is a surface that I could braze now that it is off the pipe.
I am thinking about mixing up some of our yellow clay dirt into a mud and "bedding" the part in it to do a final braze. Seems like it would give adequate support once I put it on and preheat, drying out the mud mix...........and hold it while I hit it with another round of brazing. I kind of hate to take another go at this, but my OCD is kicking in.
 
It seems to be a conundrum, what's the best way to repair broken cast iron. My brother's point is valid, that a small smear of the paint shows brazing even from a distance.
I've used all three common methods, brazing, mechanical repair and welding. There are prolonged discussions in PM about most of the lesser known methods like silver brazing, which leaves a very thin but strong line, plus various methods of welding, like peening the weld bead as it cools.
 
Illinoyance:

This is going to sound like a sarcastic comment, but I assure you that it isn't: How long did it take you to learn how to weld cast iron with cast iron ? (I don't think "brazing" would be the proper term here, because the filler metal is the same as the workpiece metal.)

My impression is that this is VERY difficult, requiring long practice. It's obvious that the melting point of the filler and the melting point of the workpiece are the same or nearly so.

One of the former members of OLDTOOLS mailing list, now sadly passed, did cast-iron gas welding on the body of a valuable cast-iron carpenter's plane using strips he cut from another plane of a commonplace model from the same maker. This fellow had done a lifetime of welding and brazing - do the rest of us mere mortals have a chance to learn this in a few tries, or is it one of those skills where you ruin 100 workpieces before you become good at it?

John Ruth
 
Brazing is what I call a "forgiving process" for cast iron repair. Brazing metal is somewhat ductile, and can absorb stresses set up when a brazed part is cooled. Brazing metal also can be "walked" or gotten to flow by playing the torch flame to create proper fillets and to enter tight areas on a joint.

The big question with the repair to the bandsaw table "crescent" casting is whether appearances are important. I may have missed something the OP wrote, but if appearances are not important while functioning of the part/bandsaw is, then brazed repairs can be left "as brazed".

My own approach to repair brazing of cast iron parts is similar to what the OP describes. I try to leave a bit of the fractured areas intact and this serves to accurately align the broken pieces. Where possible, I try to add some steel reinforcement across the breaks, sometimes fastening the steel "fish plates" or "repair plates" with socket head screws and reamed-and-fitted dowels. This puts the load transfer thru a mechanical connection rather than the brazed joint.

I've had good luck repairing cast iron using uncoated "low fuming bronze" rod and a powdered blue flux made specifically for brazing cast iron. I've also had good luck using the old "Oxweld Brazo" flux in the yellow-and-black can. The pre-fluxed bronze brazing rods work OK, but the flux deposit has made for some problems with "wetting" of the iron to be brazed.

Cast iron welding is an art unto itself as John Ruth has pointed out. The square cast iron rods for oxyacetylene welding of cast iron are hard to find these days. I remember reading articles as to how large broken iron castings were repaired by O/A welding, and was amazed at the heavy castings that were successfully repaired. In old O/A welding texts, the method of repair welding iron castings called for a high preheat in a charcoal fire or similar, and keeping the preheated cast iron parts covered with insulation except for the weld areas. A high post heat with some "soak time" and very slow cooling finished the job. I know some oldtimers broke old automobile piston rings and usedf them as filler rods for cast iron welding on small work.

The other issue is the composition of cast irons. Old cast iron from many years ago was melted in cupola furnaces. These were fired with coke, and the charge of iron melted and ran down thru the coke and out the spout of the furnace when it was tapped. The furnaces were charged with broken pieces of scrap cast iron- stuff like old engine blocks, old steam heat radiators, and similar being common. In some foundries, a percentage of new pig iron of known composition was added to each melt. In those days, cast iron was truly cast iron. It was a "gray cast iron". Machine tool builders often specified a certain percentage of scrap steel to be added to each melt, and had tighter specs on things like carbon and manganese.

In more recent times, post 1976 (the Clean Air Act taking effect about that time), cupola furnaces were outlawed in the USA. Surviving iron foundries went to using electric furnaces to melt their iron. These are either arc or induction type furnaces, and require a significant amount of steel in each melt for these types of furnaces to work properly. The result is "real cast iron" is not often found in castings poured in the past 40 years. The amount of scrap steel in each heat makes these types of cast irons more of a "semi steel", and a whole lot easier to braze or weld. Some people claim to be successful in welding "cast iron" with carbon steel electrodes or MIG wire, and I've had my doubts as to the soundness of those welds. Usually, when real cast irons were welded with steel filler metals, carbides would be precipitated out at the weld zone, forming a very brittle and highly stressed area. Usually, on cooling, these welds cracked. With enough steel in the new types of cast irons, chances are there is just enough steel to prevent or reduce the formation of carbides in the weld zone.

Old cast iron, the stuff made "way back when" in a cupola furnace is not going to "take weld" too easily. Using a cast iron filler rod so the weld is nearly homogeneous with the base metal is one way to get a good sound weld- with proper preheat and post weld heating and cooling. Using a repair electrode such as a "Ni Rod" introduces a nickel alloy into the weld zone. Some Ni Rods are machineable (and a good bit pricier), while other less expensive Ni Rods, used for things like stove grate repairs, produce welds which are not machineable.

My 'druthers, being old school, is to stick with brazing for this repair. Since the base metal should not be melted, if the parts do not "take braze", clean them up and try again. Another word of wisdom from old-timers: when preparing cast iron for brazing, they avoided using grinding wheels. The belief was the grinding would smear the free graphite in the cast iron onto the surfaces to be brazed, preventing "wetting" from occurring. The old timers told me they would file, chip, or use a burring tool to prepare a cast iron joint for brazing. I do this as well, though I've had no problems using an angle grinder to vee out and follow the line of a fracture to prepare it for brazing.

Cast iron is one of those metals which does not become plastic when raised above its transformation temperature- as steel does. Cast iron will get to a dull red, and then with not much more heat, it will puddle. This makes it a bit trickier to manage then when welding steel.
Oxyacetylene welding of steel is how I learned to weld as a kid. Coathanger wire for filler and some scrap thin steel. I learned to manage the puddle. I've never tired O/A welding of cast iron, but from using Ni Rod for stick welding, it seems a bit trickier all around.

Before I risked trying cast iron welding on a part like the saw table sector, I'd get some OLD scrap cast iron (stuff over 50 years old), and try my hand at O/A welding it together. Trying O/A welding on the newer cast iron might give a person a false sense of security, given the percentage of steel in the newer cast irons.
 
I like brazing because when it is "right" if flows and wets the surface very smoothly, much like lead/tin solder. There is just something that no other method can match. I have been around and used things that were brazed many years ago, they are just as good as can possibly be done.
I can tell this is not the good old cast of years past, but foreign cast, so I'm particularly careful to not overheat it
 
I want to again ask that others experiment with something I tried recently. I broke a piece of ductile cast iron (I know, apples and oranges) smeared silver brase bearing flux paste on the two joint edges, pressed them together mechanically and heated them to silver soldering temp. After this I surface ground one edge and the yellow line was as thin as a piece of paper. Into the vise and whacked with a ribber mallet, it held! I think this may have future possibilities.
 
I've silver brazed cast before. Always small parts that don't ordinarily see a lot of force, like machine handles. It works pretty well.

Brass is more forgiving than silver on dirty/low grade iron, in my experience.

Andy
 
Ive seen cast apparently sucessfully MIG welded with steel wire,but I prefer braze due to the zero risk factor...........nickel bronze if high strength is needed.And I dont know how many failures Ive seen in ductile/sg iron welded by experienced welders,who swear that their "beautiful "weld is 100%.....Next time you see a box trailer,see if the sg coupling is welded on instead of bolted.....cast in warning ignored.
 
Ive seen cast apparently sucessfully MIG welded with steel wire,but I prefer braze due to the zero risk factor...........nickel bronze if high strength is needed.And I dont know how many failures Ive seen in ductile/sg iron welded by experienced welders,who swear that their "beautiful "weld is 100%.....Next time you see a box trailer,see if the sg coupling is welded on instead of bolted.....cast in warning ignored.

"sg coupling"??
 
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I did both silver soldering and tig welding of cast iron and both techniques work fine. Can be a little more difficult on old machine parts that have absorbed oil but a long baking usually clears it. When welding steel and cast iron the weld area will harden and best it to anneal the whole piece.
 
John,
I read about it in Linde's book on oxy-acy welding. Then I tried it. The rod is cast iron. I suspect the silicon content is a bit higher than the iron I am welding. It melts just below the iron of the casting. The book said proceed as if brazing. It is but it takes a lot of torch manipulation to float out all the gas bubbles. A cut and polished section of the weld is indistinguishable from the base metal unless using high magnification. It might be a little difficult to find the rod nowdays. I bought up all that Praxair had. Of course preheat and postheat are necessary to prevent hardening. I once welded the apron of a 14 x 30 P&W lathe that had split lengthwise. I welded up and re-machined worn out half nuts for a 20 x 120 Lehman lathe. The last welding I did on CI was building up about an inch on the bottom of a steady rest so I could adapt it to a larger lathe.

Was it hard to learn? Not really. Use a wide V joint. Flux the joint well. Get it up to the melting point and start adding rod to the puddle. It does seem a lot like brazing. Lots of torch manipulation to float out gas bubbles or impurities. Dip the rod in flux periodically.

Never tried TIG. I suspect the heat gradient will result in hardening behind the weld.
 
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I had a 4-71 head welded up in cleveland at a little s, at first but as they could only totally rebuild the head (complete disassembly) I found that the entire head was heated in an oven, cast iron rod & "black flux" was used. IIRC TIG was the torch of choice.

Upon completion, the weld was very hard to find.

I saw a v-12 block sitting there, the cam area was blown out.
The repair was in the "as cast" area, and the use of cast iron
filler as well as needle peening, made the weld very hard to see.
 
Specifically I used the mixture that comes in a syringe, no needle, as the mixture is nearly as stiff as moist clay. But another idea came to me, drill a hole or holes into the break face, fill the holes with little sticks of silver solder, and stick the parts together with black flux, held together with mechanical pressure, heat and serve. (Probably in a weld blanket to slow down the heat transfer)
The problem with silver soldering in the normal sense is the rough break area isn't conducive to tinning from the edges, that's why I like the paste, but small holes drilled as reservoirs of alloy that can enter the break from within may work better than paste.

Now, a strange one as far as I'm concerned, a fellow I know lost the tailstock off his Hardinge as he went around the corner hauling it in his pick up truck, which broke the handwheel at the spokes. He said his friend soft soldered it back together, you know, lead/tin. OK, I looked it over and could not see the break. I think perhaps anything that tins and spreads the alloy over the whole area of the break is probably as strong or nearly so as the original cast iron. I'll ask what kind of flux they used.
 
There is no doubt CI can be welded if the work is red hot,and furnace cooled overnight..........but few have the facilities,and prolonged heating isnt cheap for a single item........Also beware of mixing silver solder and braze,they dont seem to like each other.............TD MG...sg iron.
 
I like to make a mechanical repair that is strong enough to repair the part and then braze it in place to prevent the mechanical repair from loosening. If the part is fairly large and thick, I will machine a cavity in the part and insert a steel plate with countersunk screws threaded in to both sides of the break, take it apart and V out the break, re-assemble, and then braze over the whole works. In some other cases, I will drill and counterbore screws across the crack, V it out, and then braze it all up, sealing the screws in the holes. On a lathe that bent the QC gearbox shaft and broke the banjos on the QC levers, I managed to pull it all together, make straps out of pallet banding material to go around the outside, drilled and installed drive screws, then brazed all that up. Important thing is that cast iron has virtually NO tensile strength. Put in a pulling load, it fails easily. Use the steel reinforcements like rebar in concrete to add that tensile strength and braze it into permanent position.
 
Now, a strange one as far as I'm concerned, a fellow I know lost the tailstock off his Hardinge as he went around the corner hauling it in his pick up truck, which broke the handwheel at the spokes. He said his friend soft soldered it back together, you know, lead/tin. OK, I looked it over and could not see the break. I think perhaps anything that tins and spreads the alloy over the whole area of the break is probably as strong or nearly so as the original cast iron. I'll ask what kind of flux they used.

I emailed this guy about this, he replied as follows;


" I used 800 degree low temp silver solder. I also used this stuff to repair a number of the castings on the 1910 SB that is in the front entry at my business. I am using a lower temp silver solder on my Model steam engine projects. I get this stuff from PM Reassert and it also works really great."
 








 
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