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Rigging pry bars, what works for you?

Grigg

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Location
Lexington, VA
Let's see what you have.
And hear how and why it works for you?


There are several good threads on various aspects of rigging pry bars:
---http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...-history/what-type-lifting-bar-called-294498/
---http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antique-machinery-and-history/machinery-moving-bars-280177/
Condensed info from these trheads:
--They're called by many different names. Jimmy bars, Johnson bar, pinch bar, and various other names for the same tool.
--Some of the names describe different tools in different parts of the country.
--Eastern Rigging and supply is an often recommended source http://www.easternrigging.com/prybar.htm
--Warwood tool is also well recommended as a soruce. Crow Bars | Forged Industrial Hand Tools | Warwood Tool


Here's the end of the bar I've been using for years, it's about 5' long. Bought as a digging bar at a farm auction years ago, pretty crude and likely balacksmith made. For the past 15 years or so has served as our "rigging bar" for prying heavy machines off the floor and stuffing shims and blocking under them.
It works surprisingly well, fits and works in about 1/2" gap and will lift better part of 5-7,000lb with 200 lb effort. length of lever at the working end is about 2".

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I almost didn't find our bar prior to a big move a few weeks ago and got me thinking it'd be nice to have a spare.
More than that perhaps there's an even better design, more useful or easier to use?
That lead to searching the forum and investigating the offerings.

This one pictured by gbent in an earlier thread struck me as interesting and likely a good shape.
much like a "rolling head" or "lady's foot" bar except the handle is at a flatter angle.
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From that picture I made some sketches and came up with the following design. I eliminated the spur on top, not sure what it would be good for and it would be harder to make the bar with it.
What I like about this rolling foot kind of design is the leverage starts out very strong and the more you pry the worse it gets. So it ought to be able to move an exceptionally heavy item a small amount and a more moderate load to a greater height. Allowing one bar to be effective for both very heavy items or provide high lift in a self regulating sort of fashion.

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I contacted Warwood tool to ask if they could make the bar I sketched. They seriously considered it and we had some good conversations about it, very nice folks to work with. However they didn't see an easy way for them to make just one and the tooling cost and minimum order to get serious about it was prohibitive.
Instead I ordered a few of their bars to try as is and with the help of a blacksmith friend one bar to later modify.

If you haven't checked out Warwood tool you should, and browse their "overstock" items, some of those prices are almost giveaway, better than flea market prices.
Complete part number first then style number and description, same order as in the photo.

16009 - 160 Pinch Point crow bar 66" $93.30
17630 - 176 Jimmy bar 66" (with blunt handle by request) $107.10
16160 - 161 Wedge Point Crow Bar 57' $19.63 EACH (overstock)
51110 - 511 Mine pinch bar 54" $71.97
16010 - 160 Pinch Point Crow Bar 29" $8.08 EACH (overstock)
27706 - Pry bar 12" $17.85
40010 - 400 Jimmy Wedge 10" $6.95 EACH (overstock)

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The 5 bigger bars I bought for moving machinery and or to modify to suit. The little bars I got for other purposes. The wedges I thought would be useful for starting to lift something sitting flat on the floor but they're not very pointy like I figured they should be.
The 176 Jimmy bar and the 511 Mine pinch bar each have the turned up end and I thought would be perfect for machinery lifting/moving. However after trying them they don't have as much leverage as I'm accustomed to, the business end is 3.5" or 4" long, making for a poor ratio. They each could not lift the headstock end of my L&S Powerturn, which my old crusty bar with about 2" end can.
These two bars will be useful I'm sure but I'm considering cutting the ends shorter and reshape them a bit.
The 66" long 160 pinch point crow bar might be the most useful bar for rigging just as it is.
Looking forward to modifying the various crow bars to suit different ideas/uses.

Again,
Let's see what you have.
And hear how and why it works for you?
 
Mine is just a 1 1/4" dia. 4142 "core" (from Trepanning) about 6 feet long that I forged the "flat spoon" on the end. It broke off the thinest part of the edge which just gave it more leverage.:D
 
I have a good selection of bars just about like Grigg, and I have looked at warwood tool in the past. If I was going to buy a new bar it would be from them. All of mine I have bought used except for 1 small proto pinch bar. My go to bar most of the time for moving machinery is a standard crow bar, 1.250" thick octagon 4' long, made by Bell Systems. I have some longer ones but the Bell seems to move everything I need(up to a 6klb K&T so far) and gets in a lot tighter spaces than the long guys. The only time I reach for the long ones is if I just need the leverage, which is rare.
 
I bought a digging bar that just had a flat section on one end without the point on the other end, very available and cheap. With the help of a torch and a hammer I bent the end. It looks very similar to the bottom 5'-6' bent end bar in your photo. I made it close to 20 years ago and it is good for around a 3500 lb lift with my 160 lbs of body weight. In using it I have never "modified" the bend, it has held up nicely.
 
If the flood holds off, I'll go out and shoot a photo and post it. It is in no way pretty. I think I was forging on it in '77.

John, can you share a picture?

Thanks,
Grigg

ON EDIT

Add photos. It turns out to be 5'-6". The shallow curve on heel suits the fact that its usually up on a steel block - or stack. Taper is "other" end
 

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I bought a digging bar that just had a flat section on one end without the point on the other end, very available and cheap. With the help of a torch and a hammer I bent the end.

Same here, but mine looks like the second from the top. It's very handy for things under say 5,000 lbs. Anything more and I'd have to be standing on it and that's very dangerous. I get out my Simplex jacks instead.
 
That's a nice looking bar John. I've been using mine in similar fashon with a steel block for the heal to sit on. Use a block about 1/2" bigger in each dimensions and just roll it around a few times higher and higher (or lower and lower) before having to change it out or stack.


Let's see some more pictures to go with the descriptions of different bars.
 
The bars I use for moving machinery are:

J.H. Williams mechanic's pinch bar, one end is a chisel-tipped prying end, the other is a tapered drift. Length about 24"

Owatonna Tool Company Ironworker's "sleever bar"- one end is a chisel-tipped prying end, the other is a tapered drift. Length about 36"

Various ancient millwright's "pinch" or "turning bars". length anywhere from 4 ft to about 5'-6". These bars have the square section at the business end, forged to a chisel point. The square section is forged to a taper and transitions to a round handle. At least one of the bars was forged by Warwood. My long pinch bars are ancient, and show plenty of signs of hard use from whomever had them ahead of me.

Boilermaker's pinch bar, was cut with an O/A torch on a job by boilermakers many years ago to shorten it. The end I have is a kind of "rolling" pry, with a fishtail or widening at the prying edge. I use this bar with a cheater made of sch 80 (extra strong) steel pipe.

Flanging or setup wedges. These are forged steel with a relieved surface on the wedge faces. "ribs" that make the actual wedge do the work. These wedges are forged & casehardened steel and are used by pipefitters to spread pipe flanges apart (hence the name "flanging wedges") and for setup of work on machine tools like planers. I believe the ones I have were forged by Armstrong. Used to get under a machine tool base when there is no notch provided for a pinch bar or "toe jack".

I like the profile of the "head" of the pinch bar which Grigg has posted. I am sure if Warwood offered this bar, it would be quite pricey, but worth it to the people who needed them. My own thought would be to get a chunk of 4340 steel and forge a bar to this configuration, then oil quench and temper it. John Oder's post suggests an easy alternative to making a long and heavy bar as a one piece tool. If the shank of a bar were forged and finish-turned to a straight diameter (no taper), an extension handle (aka "cheater") could be made up. This could be a piece of extra strong (schedule 80) steel pipe with a machined bushing welded into one end. This bushing would be bored to a slip fit on the turned shank of the pinch bar. Little or no slop, and a schedule 80 pipe would mean a sound extension to the head of the bar. For smaller work, the bar could be used minus the extension. A piece of 1 1/2" schedule 80 black steel pipe about 5 ft long would make a dandy extension. Light enough to be handled easily, strong enough for a couple of men to get on. If the head of the pinch bar were forged to Grigg's design and the shank made about 30" long overall, with 6" turned to engage the extension, it would work handily in a 48" extension pipe. Total length would be
72", or about what a long pinch bar from Warwood is. A smith shop with a power hammer would be needed to draw a piece of 4340 round bar to a square cross section and forge the head, then swage the reduced shank diameter. A cleanup cut on the reduced shank in an engine lathe, using a tool with a generous radius would complete the job prior to heat treating. I'd have to run some numbers as to what diameter the reduced shank would be to fit properly in a bushing in a piece of 1 1/2" sch 80 pipe. I'd also have to run numbers to see what bending moment that round reduced shank could handle based on some oil quenching and tempering of the 4340.

A tool forging shop who helped us out at the powerplant is Queen City Forge, in Cinncinnati. We had a large open end slugging wrench, maybe 6" opening. The wrenches we had needed to fit into an impossibly tight location to make up or break loose nuts on some studbolts. The mechanics used 16 lb and 25 lb sledges on these wrenches- which were built for slugging. Unfortunately, the wrenches used to spread their jaws. We came up with a design of wrench with some strengthening of the jaws, which could fit into the tight locations. I found Queen City Forge online. They have a blacksmith who is quite good with a power hammer. He forged us two of the wrenches. I had thought 4340 steel seemed the right steel for the job. Queen City contracted a metallurgist to recommend the steel and heat treat. He confirmed my choice of 4340, and gave the oil quenching and tempering data. Queen City confirmed it with a series of Rockwell hardness tests (marks were visible on the wrenches when we received them). The wrenches stood up to our mechanics and the heavy beaters.

Queen City Forge, if they are still in business, might be a likely shop to make a run of bars to Grigg's design. They do one-off jobs. They charged a fair price for the wrenches, but being a powerplant and needing the wrenches during outage work, we were not too concerned with a few bucks for good wrenches. For people such as those of us who frequent this 'board, the price per bar is another story and has to be within some kind of reasonable bounds. Picking up a piece of 4340 and spending time in the smith shop to forge a bar, then having to heat treat it could take a person long enough to make paying Queen City or a similar shop seem reasonable. And, the heat treating would be done in a controlled environment rather than "by eye" as most smiths and oldtimers tend to do it.
 
A pretty timely topic, as I've spent some quality time over the last few days with the bar Grigg shows in post #2. Lets call it a moon foot bar, as that is what the working end looks like to me. The handle end of the bar was drawn out under a power hammer by a poor smith but the working end looks very good and was either produced by purpose made dies or a very good smith. The handle end was left large enough no number of people on the bar are going to bend it like a common heel bar. I plan on making another bar at about 75% scale, as the original is heavy enough its about a days work just to carry it around.

I'm not a big guy and with the 6 1/2' bar I can lift either end of a 14,000# machine completely off the floor. The best thing about the bar is it is the right height for using 2 x 4 (or 6 or 8) cribbing and 1 1/2" solid steel rollers. Depending on the levelness of the floor I may have to put a 3/8 shim under the heel of the bar.

The moon foot bar doesn't work to walk either a machine on rollers or a machine on the floor like you can with the more common heel bar. The moon foot just doesn't have enough length from the tip to the heel.
 
Joe, thanks for another wonderfully detailed and informative post.
Do you have pictures of the "Boilermaker's pinch bar" you describe?

All this talk of forging bars from scratch... If not up for that drawing and tapering you could start with a bar from Warwood or anyone else and adapt the end to suit.

gbent, your idea for a 3/4 scale bar could start with a Warwood 16160 Wedge Point Crow Bar at 57" and 1.25" square at the business end. Warwood has about 50 of them in the overstock section, for just $19.63 EACH. I bought one with that in mind as and one of the largest size to modify too.
They're 1060 steel and Warwood recommended just air cooling as they do when making them in the first place.

All the discussion is great and the descriptions too. This thread wouldn't exactly be worthless without pictures but pictures sure would help, they're worth about 1,000 words as they say.

Thanks for all the ideas and info,
Grigg
 
I recently bought a mazak qt15 (9500lb) and did the unloading (and loading but that is another story) using my telehandler. The telehandler won't fit in the shop much though so I had to do the inside moving by hand. I bought one of these:

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200326481_200326481

It combined with some rented skates and a jet toe jack that I bought were great. I very much recommend these levers.
 
I use a bar that was made for pulling railroad spikes. Has a big end and a little end. Both have their place. My son found it in the river while fishing about 25 years ago (next to the tracks). He lugged it for a couple miles back to the road because he thought I could use it. He was about 12 at the time and that thing is HEAVY. Makes it "priceless" to me.
 
I have two "nose bars" from Eastern Rigging. I like them because the tapered nose can get under a small gap, they are forged, the back end is blunt (no danger of stabbing oneself), and they work well for "crabbing" a machine around. The 5' bar seems to get the most use around my crowded shop.
 
I recently bought a mazak qt15 (9500lb) and did the unloading (and loading but that is another story) using my telehandler. The telehandler won't fit in the shop much though so I had to do the inside moving by hand. I bought one of these:

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200326481_200326481

It combined with some rented skates and a jet toe jack that I bought were great. I very much recommend these levers.

Yeah, I've got two of those, one of each size. I have to borrow the smaller one back every time I want to use it. Don't let anybody know I have the larger one.
 
Let's see what you have.
And hear how and why it works for you?


There are several good threads on various aspects of rigging pry bars:
---http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...-history/what-type-lifting-bar-called-294498/
---http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antique-machinery-and-history/machinery-moving-bars-280177/
Condensed info from these trheads:
--They're called by many different names. Jimmy bars, Johnson bar, pinch bar, and various other names for the same tool.
--Some of the names describe different tools in different parts of the country.
--Eastern Rigging and supply is an often recommended source http://www.easternrigging.com/prybar.htm
--Warwood tool is also well recommended as a soruce. Crow Bars | Forged Industrial Hand Tools | Warwood Tool


Here's the end of the bar I've been using for years, it's about 5' long. Bought as a digging bar at a farm auction years ago, pretty crude and likely balacksmith made. For the past 15 years or so has served as our "rigging bar" for prying heavy machines off the floor and stuffing shims and blocking under them.
It works surprisingly well, fits and works in about 1/2" gap and will lift better part of 5-7,000lb with 200 lb effort. length of lever at the working end is about 2".

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That digging bar may be a coal miners chisel.

We have one in like new condition that a very old neighbor gave us 45 years ago.

He used it when he was young in the mines.

We have used ours for breaking concrete and hard pan and it does not dent or bend.

Not sure what the heck kind of steel it is or how heat treated but it is hard and strong.
 








 
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