For Sale - Francis Reed "Sensitive" Drill

Joe in NH · Sep 7, 2017

We've had discussions of "sensitive" drills on occasion. I now am the proud owner of no less than FIVE of these in various manufacturers/degree of completeness.

The one I'm selling now is a Francis Reed construction. Its complete except for the "loose" pulley on the attached rear-side, base-mounted countershaft. (Francis Reed advertising state the countershaft can be attached to the drill or mounted overhead.) Minus the loose pulley, a steel plate has been introduced between the counter and the machine base. From the drilling on it and the attached frankenstein switch the plate ostensibly for a motor attachment.

Thus I would call this one almost "plug & play" - well, minus the plug and motor.

It stands 6' tall in its stocking feet. Large trumpet shaped base. Black but dirty - a survivor to be sure but somewhat exceptional in that it is pretty much all there. Oh-minus the chuck - sorry.

I'm asking what I paid - $100 - and I'm bringing it to this weekend's FAMOUS Dublin Gas & Steam Engine Machinery Show. I don't think there is a lot of room for dicker at this price level.

Someone could see it there and buy it, or commit to it now and I'll leave this one home and bring one of the others to Dublin. Doesn't matter.

I'll get some pix as my wife gets her smart phone camera working (It reads "Camera Fail" right now - I told her to try re-booting the phone.)

Meanwhile, here it is back in the day.

$11004d1237152308-fracis-reed-sensitive-drill-press-both_drill.jpg$

And below as it is now (Wife's Smartphone now working)

Joe in NH

Raybmarlow · Sep 7, 2017

I will be in Dublin Joe, would like to meet you and interested

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Raybmarlow · Sep 7, 2017

I will be set up early tomorrow morning

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Joe in NH · Sep 7, 2017

I'm planning on being there Saturday after 9 a.m.

If you want it and will take it there, I'll bring TWO. The second is an Excelsior - and it is less complete. Corresponding price.

Joe in NH

Raybmarlow · Sep 7, 2017

Great , I will have a black Dodge and trailer with a large Onan generator on it

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Warren · Sep 8, 2017

Well Dang it all. I made the decision not to go to Dublin last night after a friend called needing some help. It would have been fun to meet up with you Joe and chat for a few mins about old stuff. Someday maybe.

jhruska · Sep 8, 2017

Joe,
That Francis Reed is a very nice example of a popular sensitive drill.
How did you identify it as a F-R product?
Drilling and tapping with a sliding head drill would be easier as the head can slide up for clearance thus
keeping the spindle on center with the drilled hole as opposed to the common bench and floor drills sold today.

Copies of the drill in various forms were made by different companies.
H.G. Barr of Worcester, Ma. held a patent and was making a similar drill called the #1. In 1901 the company offered for sale
gang drills in 2, 3, 4, and 6 head units on the same stand.
Here is the #5 drill as sold in 1907. Larger than the #1 it was driven by a 2" belt but still had the 2 Morse taper in the spindle.

Here is another drill from the Dwight Slate Company of Hartford Connecticut in 1907.

1907-Dwight Slate Machine Co., Sensitive Drill Press.jpg

Myers Machine Tool and U.S. Machine offered for sale what look like virtual twins around 1917. The only difference I found was that the later editions of the Myers drill had the company name cast in the baseplate.
I have the U.S Machine version and it is nearly complete except for the spindle pulley. I am still looking for dimensions to copy or something close that could be modified to suit. It has a barely legible sticker on the top of the column as an I.D.

This style of drill was included in a 1940 U.S War Department technical manual by the Quartermaster Corps TM 10-445.

John

Joe in NH · Sep 8, 2017

Thank you for the Barr information - I have not seen that.

I think I have mentioned about H.G. Barr making claim to the Worcester Mechanics Association against WPI for "interfering with his trade" by manufacturing a direct copy of his drill - and making the drill using student labor and thereby undercutting Barr. WPI responded to the complaint by promise to market the drills "elsewhere" rather than Worcester. Most of the Washburn Shop drills are consequently found with retailer badges from Boston or Providence, or even points further away - but almost never Worcester.

I have...

A "Washburn Shops" drill which is my original sensitive drill - its not complete and I've made a couple of smaller shafts and parts. But it is one of my first flat belt acquisitions and sentimental me retains a soft spot for this drill and possibly anything WPI having been originated in the "Hub of Massachusetts" myself.

An Excelsior drill which is yet another product of the Royersford Machine Co. This one not complete but a functional example and will probably go with me to Dublin for sale tomorrow.

A WF & John Barnes "friction disk" drill which I'm keeping because it is fairly unique. Missing a couple of parts and one of the board members is allowing me to "borrow" parts of his complete Barnes drill to replicate what I need to make mine complete.

A new to me Excelsior Drill identical to above Excelsior - but this one more complete. This one I am keeping.

And the Francis Reed drill going and possibly spoken for at Dublin.

The Francis Reed drill has a plate attached with the Maker's name. The Reed drill I would judge slightly more robust than the Washburn Shops or Excelsior drill - not necessarily a bad thing - but still very much in the same marketplace niche.

jhruska · Sep 8, 2017

Poked under the hood of the computer and found a Washburn folder with the following photos. The first two go together and it is quite clear that the drill came from The Washburn Shops
The other three are from someone's restoration and he said it was a Washburn drill. There is another photo of the casting date and it is 3-2-20.
The U.S.Machine and Myers drills look like they stepped out of the same sand mold as the Washburn. I believe Myers cast their own parts in Columbia, Pa as the details are usually rougher.

jhruska · Sep 8, 2017

Here is another group of photos.
The first three photos relate only to H.G.Barr.
First is a patent taken out by Henry G. Barr in 1901. This patent is more complex than the drills listed so far. There should be another earlier patent that substantiates the claim of infringement against WPI but I have not found it. Patent US665381 - Upright drilling-machine. - Google Patents

The second photo shows the dovetail slide that extends the full length of the column and there is no swivel table.

The third photo is when we say goodby to the H.G.Barr company.

The last two are Myers. The downfeed casting has raised numbers and MMT is cast in the base.
The Myers base has a defect on the left side.

John

Joe, could you take a photo or two of the upper idler pulleys and how they swing into position for the second set of rpm's?

Frank R · Sep 9, 2017

jhruska said:
View attachment 207635

That is a nice looking photo; well lit, soft background.

Joe in NH · Sep 9, 2017

Francis Reed did not sell at Dublin, NH today. A couple of interested queries. A second "Excelsior" did not sell either, although one of the two inquiries was a "group discount" on the two drill presses together. I was open to that.

That potential buyer has no less than three DPs in this pattern already - different manufacturers - and is looking to expand his stable.

We'll see. Both took away my name & address and phone.

I bought a nice 6" three jaw chuck in the early "knuckle buster" pattern for small money - includes the correct key.

Joe in NH

Raybmarlow · Sep 10, 2017

Joe in NH said:
Francis Reed did not sell at Dublin, NH today. A couple of interested queries. A second "Excelsior" did not sell either, although one of the two inquiries was a "group discount" on the two drill presses together. I was open to that.

That potential buyer has no less than three DPs in this pattern already - different manufacturers - and is looking to expand his stable.

We'll see. Both took away my name & address and phone.

I bought a nice 6" three jaw chuck in the early "knuckle buster" pattern for small money - includes the correct key.

Joe in NH

I looked for you Joe and couldn't find you, I was even told by a friend they saw a guy with 2 camels, was there , where were you set up ? Bummed, still interested

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Raybmarlow · Sep 10, 2017

Raybmarlow said:
I looked for you Joe and couldn't find you, I was even told by a friend they saw a guy with 2 camels, was there , where were you set up ? Bummed, still interested

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This was my setup

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Joe in NH · Sep 10, 2017

Ray, I didn't see you either. I commented to my friend that you were "bringing a generator to sell" but we in our minds counted at least 5 others we saw who could fit that descriptive.

I'll send you my Email and we can talk further. I would say to pursue this IF you want to get ahead of the two others who expressed an interest.

I think its called "First Come First Serve."

If you want I can send pix which may help you commit without seeing in person. If you wish. I generally don't myself but I think I've been honest in my description (it really is pretty much all there except for the pulley and I haven't even removed the frankenstein switch - its pretty much as it came to me.)

As my wife say "Heck two people can hardly go out to eat that cheaply."

Joe in NH
Standby for a PM

Raybmarlow · Sep 10, 2017

Joe in NH said:
Ray, I didn't see you either. I commented to my friend that you were "bringing a generator to sell" but we in our minds counted at least 5 others we saw who could fit that descriptive.

I'll send you my Email and we can talk further. I would say to pursue this IF you want to get ahead of the two others who expressed an interest.

I think its called "First Come First Serve."

If you want I can send pix which may help you commit without seeing in person. If you wish. I generally don't myself but I think I've been honest in my description (it really is pretty much all there except for the pulley and I haven't even removed the frankenstein switch - its pretty much as it came to me.)

As my wife say "Heck two people can hardly go out to eat that cheaply."

Joe in NH
Standby for a PM

Lol, your wife is correct, I fully understand first come theory, we can communicate email and phone

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Joe in NH · Sep 17, 2017

Today Raybmarlow and I completed our deal. Francis Reed now has a new owner and for me a mission accomplished.

As I have said - too many historical machines and not enough custodians. Ray is to be commended for stepping up to the plate.

Think of this drill press in our OSHA age. Flat belt machines are now basically outlawed by any business concern where a person might be hazarded by getting caught in a belt. And the cost to provide proper protection often exceeds the off-the-shelf cost of a new machine. The day may come in the not too distant future where machine work in an "unguarded" environment may be prohibited for common production: most CNC machines now have covers which are part of the interlock which when open for inspection won't allow the machine to run.

Not to say that "grandfathered" machines may not exist unregulated out there in the shops and basements of enthusiasts.

But even these may be subject to hazard. I met Ray to do the exchange at a friends "Model T" get-together. One of the stories I heard of another who had "collections" of machinery involved closing out an estate for a deceased friend - a friend whose personal machine collections covered a good part of 20th and 19th century mechanical arts - now largely antique.

"We took dumpster fulls of machinery from his house. Simply because a buyer could not be found in time and the realtors were obliged by contract to have the house available for market in a certain specified time?"

One wishes I had had the time to look in those dumpsters before the scrappies did their dirty deed.

Time & events conspire to rob us of our knowledge of what was. This is not unique or new - it has ALWAYS been this way. Unfortunately the loss in this case is not simply a physical machine - but also the information ABOUT that machine - who used it, what were the capabilities, what were the downsides.

Information of what was and what worked - or didn't.

"Those who are not aware of the past are doomed by fate to repeat their mistakes."

But Mr. Reed's creation will survive - at least for now.

Ray - take a photocopy of the attached catalog page I offered above. Mat & frame it and place it on the wall behind your Francis Reed drill so everyone knows where this one came from. And from this they will sense your appreciation for it.

And knowing you as they probably do, assume some of that appreciation for themselves.

Thanks again,
Joe in NH

Raybmarlow · Sep 17, 2017

Joe in NH said:
Today Raybmarlow and I completed our deal. Francis Reed now has a new owner and for me a mission accomplished.

As I have said - too many historical machines and not enough custodians. Ray is to be commended for stepping up to the plate.

Think of this drill press in our OSHA age. Flat belt machines are now basically outlawed by any business concern where a person might be hazarded by getting caught in a belt. And the cost to provide proper protection often exceeds the off-the-shelf cost of a new machine. The day may come in the not too distant future where machine work in an "unguarded" environment may be prohibited for common production: most CNC machines now have covers which are part of the interlock which when open for inspection won't allow the machine to run.

Not to say that "grandfathered" machines may not exist unregulated out there in the shops and basements of enthusiasts.

But even these may be subject to hazard. I met Ray to do the exchange at a friends "Model T" get-together. One of the stories I heard of another who had "collections" of machinery involved closing out an estate for a deceased friend - a friend whose personal machine collections covered a good part of 20th and 19th century mechanical arts - now largely antique.

"We took dumpster fulls of machinery from his house. Simply because a buyer could not be found in time and the realtors were obliged by contract to have the house available for market in a certain specified time?"

One wishes I had had the time to look in those dumpsters before the scrappies did their dirty deed.

Time & events conspire to rob us of our knowledge of what was. This is not unique or new - it has ALWAYS been this way. Unfortunately the loss in this case is not simply a physical machine - but also the information ABOUT that machine - who used it, what were the capabilities, what were the downsides.

Information of what was and what worked - or didn't.

"Those who are not aware of the past are doomed by fate to repeat their mistakes."

But Mr. Reed's creation will survive - at least for now.

Ray - take a photocopy of the attached catalog page I offered above. Mat & frame it and place it on the wall behind your Francis Reed drill so everyone knows where this one came from. And from this they will sense your appreciation for it.

And knowing you as they probably do, assume some of that appreciation for themselves.

Thanks again,
Joe in NH

Thank you Joe, was my pleasure to finally meet you and to make this purchase, per our discussions I love old equipment and belt driven drill presses to be more specific, she will be put aside for a little while until I'm ready to restore her and put her in service, these old pieces need to be kept alive and as you said today we need to learn as much as we can about them and send that information forward to the few that will appreciate it. Also thank you very much for setting up be seeing Carl's shop in his collection, It was quite amazing for me I would love to see it again to taking the things I'm sure I missed. Yes there were two things I really like there and wouldn't mind having we almost communications open and if you're ever out in my area feel free to stop by and see my tiny little shop. Thank you again

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Raybmarlow · Sep 17, 2017

Also Joe , I can't recall what brand the DP was I showed you a picture of ,,, my age is showing.. lol

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Joe in NH · Jul 18, 2018

Update to the drill press saga.

The Francis Reed now resides happily with Ray. I got what I paid for it and it has a new home - it's "saved."

The Washburn Shops WPI drill still resides in a place of honor in my shop. Currently not belted, but parts are available.

The Royerford "Excelsior" was living outside the shop waiting to go to a show (or an interested query.) Wife goes to pass by going to the trash cans, finds it a little tight to squeeze in among the machinery, and pushes the drill press in attempting to get her clearance. Over it goes and hits the floor now broken at mid-line. I'm heartbroken. But not enough to divorce the wife.

I've looked at it for a repair - but it is hardly worth it as these drill presses are relatively common in their various clones. So I borrow parts off it which might be usable by another custodian - and the broken part (column) goes to scrap.

The Barnes Friction drill is still waiting for parts.

A new arrival. HG Barr No. 1 drill (see above) a near clone to the others but I would guess about 105 percent of the size of the WPI Drill or the Royersford Excelsior. This one is missing parts, has been electrified with the standard top mounted rear placed 1/4 motor, has an issue with the keyed top-knot pulley - but is/was a functional drill. "Drills like a Demon" says the former owner, who ultimately GAVE it to me simply to get it out of his basement as the house is under agreement to sell.

Can you beat FREE?

233344d1531962180-sale-francis-reed-sensitive-drill-00y0y_7dh0zcatwmc_1200x900.jpg

It might become "Lawn Art." Wife needs a place to hang plants - if she can resist the temptation to push it over and "Oopsy dear - my bad - Sorry, another one broken I guess."

One woman wrecking crew?

Perhaps by bringing home ANOTHER drill press I've made my revenge?

Joe in NH

For Sale - Francis Reed "Sensitive" Drill

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