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Semi-OT: What fiber in today's plumber's wicking?

John Garner

Titanium
Joined
Sep 1, 2004
Location
south SF Bay area, California
Want to add a ball of plumber's wicking to my toolbox, but my local suppliers are hesitating to make such a piddly sale . . . suggesting that I buy it online. (Thanks guys, I'll keep that in mind when I want to make a substantial order.)

My last ball of wicking was twined asbestos, which is probably not what today's wicking is, and Europeans reportedly use hemp wicking, but the US stuff looks more like cotton bakery twine.

If so, I'd rather buy a dozen doughnuts than mail order a spool of kite string.
 
Are you looking for packing used in a leaded cast iron soil pipe joint? That is oiled Hemp.
Or are you after stem packing, but not the Teflon or graphite impregnated type? My father had a large ball of that type he called lampwig or lampwhig, not sure of the spelling or proper name. It seemed like oiled cotton twine, but not strong like twine.

Closest thing I could find: McMaster-Carr
 
The guys over here used " Boss White and Hemp " for pipe sealing back in the day. " Boss White " was a sort of jointing compound/paste. The hemp came in a sort of big loose ball. The guys would paint the joint with " Boss White " and then carefully wind strands of hemp into the thread. It was a very reliable means of pipe sealing.

Regards Tyrone
 
Wicking was sometimes called "candle wicking" and came in either a ball or on a cardboard 'core' in a spool. Wicking is a cotton thread. Never was asbestos. Wicking was soft and fine enough to fit into the 'valleys' on male pipe threads.

Packing, on the other hands, as used on valve stems and on faucet stems and radiator valve stems, was an asbestos fiber with graphite mixed in.

Making up bell-and-spigot cast iron 'soil pipe' (drainage pipe), the joints were 'yarned' with Oakum, a natural fiber which swelled when wet. Oakum came in bundles. After the joint was 'yarned', the Oakum was driven into the annular space between the male pipe end and the female bell using 'calking irons' or 'yarning irons'. Once the Oakum was driven in tight, lead wool was then driven into the annular space and tightened up with the calking irons. Lastly, the joint was 'run' using molten lead. If the joint was in a vertical run of pipe, the lead was poured in with a ladle. If on a horizontal or inclined run, then an asbestos rope was cinched around the pipe to make a dam, and a short chain with alligator clips was used to hold the ends of the asbestos rope together. A gap in the rope at 12:00 was used to pour the molten lead into.

After the 'running' the joint, another round with the calking irons to tighten up the lead ring was often done.

Wicking was commonly used by plumbers and steamfitters on screwed joints where things may have been apart and together a few times. Tapered pipe threads tended to spread the female threads, particularly in brass fittings. The way I was taught by my father was to apply a thin coat of pipe joint compound (which is commonly called 'pipe dope') to the male threads. The wicking is then wound into the threads taking care not to cross over any threads. Another thin coat of pipe dope is then applied and the joint is made up.

Wicking is OK to use on water, low pressure heating steam, compressed air piping. Dad made sure to tell me never to use wicking on natural gas piping (we lived in Brooklyn, NY where propane was unknown).

Wicking has been largely replaced by Teflon tape. I tend to be an oldtimer and do not like to use Teflon tape on a lot of the piping I make up. I tend to believe that a good job of using wicking and pipe dope on used fittings will give a better seal than the Teflon tape. Dad is long gone from this life, but I still have plenty of wicking along with his other plumbing and pipefitting tools, and even some of the old lead working tools for lead water pipe work.

Dad also taught me that if you were on a job (such as when a relative or neighbor asked you to give them a hand) and they did not have pipe dope in the house, a can of oil based enamel paint, using the thick stuff from the bottom of the can, was a good substitute.
 
I served my time at " TBA " and one of the products they made was the graphite packing that Joe refers to. It was made on some old braiding machines that were constantly in need of repair so I spent a bit of time in that department. You could always tell the operatives from the " Greasy Plaiting " department because the graphite made their overalls shiny like leather. Their work boots were especially shiny, like a Guardsman's parade ground boots.

When you were using the packing the idea was to put several rings of the packing into what was called a " stuffing box ". You would make yourself a little jig out of wood so all the rings were all cut to the same length and had a scarf type angled joint. The idea was to put the joints opposing each other IE 12-00 o clock, 6-00 o clock, 3-00 o clock, 9-00 o clock etc

Then you gradually tightened the gland ring to prevent any leaks. As time went by you would tighten the gland a little bit more. Getting the old packings out to replace them with new packings could be fun.

It came in all sizes from about 1/4" square to 2" square.

Regards Tyrone.
 
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For water pipes, in Italy was used hemp fiber. The most common pipe dope was green, not white. A plumber's trick was to mar the male threads with channel lock pliers before putting the dope and the hemp: this helped the hemp fibers to better grab to the threads when screwing the joint together.
Next time I am back there, I'll look through my father's tools. I'd bet he still had a can of that dope.

Paolo
 
Paolo:

I don't think there is any 'official color' for pipe dope. White pipe dope came late in the game, using Teflon compounds. The pipe dope my father used was made by Hercules (a company that has been around forever making chemicals such as pipe dope, heating boiler water treatment, sulphur based cutting oils, etc) for plumbers. The stuff was a light brown. On powerplant work, we used "Keytite", a greenish colored pipe dope for steam and fuel oil service. For the past umpteen years, I've been using "Gasoila" pipe dope. This stuff is a bluish color and is OK for potable water as well as oil, steam, compressed air, and who-knows-whatelse.

A 'loaded question' I ask when I teach 'Steam Power 101' is " What is the purpose of pipe dope ?". The correct answer in an ideal world is: "to act as an antiseize paste of lubricant for the pipe threads'. Properly cut tapered pipe threads are known as "dry seal threads". When a screwed joint with properly cut threads is made up, it should not need any sort of sealant- in that ideal world populated by physics professors who speak of 'weightless, massless, and frictionless' things. In actuality, making screwed pipe joints up dry could result in a galling or seizing as the threads are wedged tighter and dry friction occurs. On steam service such as on locomotives where pipe and fittings had to be taken down regularly (such as boiler water level gauge piping, for cleaning out, or boiler washout plugs), some shops used a paste of graphite and steam cylinder oil.

Most of the older pipe dopes were some mixture of mineral based oil or linseed oil, white lead, and/or litharge. Most of the old pipe dopes were THICK, and got thicker with time. I can still recall the smell of the Hercules pipe dope my father used. As a kid, I used to help my father, and loved the smells of his smoking pipe mixed with pipe dope and dark sulphur cutting oil. Some of my late father's 'Ridgid' pipe wrenches are on the rack in my shop, no paint left on them, but dingleberries of oil Hercules Pipe Dope from well over 50 years ago sticking on like petrified dinosaur droppings.

Tyron:

You wrote an excellent description of the RIGHT way to repack a stuffing box. Few, if any, people bother with making a wood mandrel or dummy to roll the packing rings around. I've had to stop people from winding the packing around valve stems in a continuous spiral, and then cutting it in one line. Wind up with oversized packing rings and with a little luck, these same people put a wicked score or nick into a bronze valve stem.

By your writings, it is obvious you have 'been there and done that', and are a first-class mechanic. I cringe when I see how some so-called 'mechanics' work.
At the powerplant, we had one mechanic who was really a fine craftsman and took a lot of pride in his work. He had the reputation of being a real SOB to work with. He and I are tight to this day, and I've been retired for over 7 years. Towards the end of my time at the powerplant, I'd be sitting in my office doing engineering work and the phone would ring. It would be this mechanic, and he'd start off: "What're ya doing ?" and follow it with "Get down here to the ---- area, I got a question for you..." He'd hang up before I could ask him what was on his mind. I'd get down in the powerplant to where this mechanic was working. He had no actual question. He'd tell me: "so-and-so was working with me. He's an a--hole and no mechanic so I told him I did not need him on the job.
Get your shirt off (I wore dress shirts or good flannel shirts to work) and gimme a hand here." This was strictly against union rules as I was management, but we'd be in some area of the powerplant where we could see anyone coming, or simply close and lock a door or two. I'd jump in and we'd be making up screwed piping or instrument lines using "Swagelok" fittings and a tubing bender, or maybe doing a shaft alignment, or sometimes it was just sharing a job in the plant machine shop as this guy knew I was an old machinist. We'd have a good time, knock out a job, and he'd always remark that I was one of the only people he liked to work with. This same guy was the 'doctor' when it came to routine overhauls and repairs on the Woodward ballhead/hydraulic governors on the hydro turbines. He was like a surgeon in how he worked on the governors, and when a unit was started back up, the governor needed little or no final tweaking. When we converted to digital governing, this guy was never the same. He is finishing his time at the powerplant in management as a 'trainer', teaching apprentices, which is a good place for him. This fellow refers to me as "a REAL mechanical engineer, and a REAL mechanic", which I consider better than having a graduate degree.

One of the highest praises my father could bestow upon a person in the crafts or trades was: "he's a real mechanic". From your writings and experience, I'd say you are one of those "real mechanics", a fast vanishing breed these days. With throw-away parts and people unable to think for themselves, relying on 'drop down menus' or computer programs to guide them, the real mechanics who could 'size up a job' and figure it out for themselves are getting fewer and fewer.

For removing larger packings, we use 'packing pullers'. These look like corkscrews fastened to automobile speedometer cable, with tee handles. Work quite well if a person is patient and does not try to pull compressed/hard packing rings out in one yank. For smaller packings, I've made hooks out of TIG or brazing rod sharpened to points and 'picked away' at the hardened packing material. A trick that sometimes works is to turn on the pressure in the line for an instant (assuming what the line is carrying is not harmful or dangerous). Sometimes, packings that are hardened can be worked a bit with the hooks, and then by turning on the pressure (such as steam or water), the pressure coming up into the stuffing box will blow the packing rings out. Not the safest show in town, and with today's lock-out/tag-out, the isolation valves on either side of what you're working on would be locked and tagged, so blowing out the old packing is not likely to happen.
 
Hi Joe, Thanks for that. I set my stall out to be the best fitter in the shop from an early age. I never got to that point but I wasn't far off.

Yes we had the corkscrew packing pullers also. Even with those it could be a tussle. We had a lot of really old heavy duty gearboxes were the drive shafts ran through stuffing boxes. Over a long period of time the shafts would get worn down slightly creating a " step " that the packings would fit into so making removal difficult.

The old machines that were used to make the braided packings were something to behold. They were like a smaller version of a fairground ride were the thread " carriers " rode on a track plate in and out of each other to create the braided packing.

The base plates used to wear out pretty quickly and replacing the plates and the islands that made the " carriers " go in and to create the braid was a regular job. It involved a hell of a lot of filing in situ. You'd put one "carrier" in the track and start winding it around by hand. Part way around it'd hit a tight spot and break the shear pin. That was 3" nail. You then had to relieve the track with a file. Once one " carrier " had got all the way around safely you put another one in the track and you'd see how that went. That might bind up somewhere else so more filing.
You carried on like that until all sixteen carriers were making their merry way in and out of each other going around and around. Sometimes if the plates were cast poorly you'd go through a whole box of 3" nails before you were finished.

The big tubs of tallow that were used to coat some brands of packings attracted the local wild life like a magnet. The rats were especially fond of it. I've seen beetles under those machines that I've never seen anywhere else

Regards Tyrone.
 
The old machines that were used to make the braided packings were something to behold. They were like a smaller version of a fairground ride were the thread " carriers " rode on a track plate in and out of each other to create the braided packing.

Regards Tyrone.

A maypole braiding machine, used for rope as well and for covering wiring harnesses.
 
Here are a couple of video links about a rope making factory a few miles east of me that show some of their machinery perhaps a long similar lines to that described by Tyrone only fairly new.
Atlantic Braids Ltd. Rope Manufacturing -sneak peek (no sound)
Atlantic Braids Ltd. Rope Manufacturing -sneak peek (no sound) - YouTube
ABL TreePro Tree Climbing Rope Factory Visit
ABL TreePro Tree Climbing Rope Factory Visit - YouTube
Company website .
Atlantic Braids Ltd. - Rope Manufacturing
Regards,
Jim
 
Here are a couple of video links about a rope making factory a few miles east of me that show some of their machinery perhaps a long similar lines to that described by Tyrone only fairly new.
Atlantic Braids Ltd. Rope Manufacturing -sneak peek (no sound)
Atlantic Braids Ltd. Rope Manufacturing -sneak peek (no sound) - YouTube
ABL TreePro Tree Climbing Rope Factory Visit
ABL TreePro Tree Climbing Rope Factory Visit - YouTube
Company website .
Atlantic Braids Ltd. - Rope Manufacturing
Regards,
Jim


Thanks Jim, More modern but just as noisy. The procedure is just the same as I remember it.

Regards Tyrone.
 
If the OP was talking about NPT threaded joints, in the old days it was coarse thread wound into the threads, with white lead over that before the joint was screwed up. Some of the joints in my home were made up that way, by the original owner who was a plumber they say Timeframe 1895 or so.

Modern version is as Joe mentioned teflon tape. If done properly this can produce a mass-spec helium leak-tight joint. For home use it is often backed up with blue pipe dope - belt, AND suspenders.

If anyone wants to hear about it, one of the best pipe dopes made today is made by Swagelock, and is called SWAK. Basically fine teflon particles in an anerobic adhesive. Completely trouble free and a perfect seal every time, even if the threads on either, or both parts, are dodgy.
 
Tyrone:

The use of tallow in braided packing was quite common into as late as the 1990's in the USA. Two very common types of braided packing used on cold water pumps as well as sterntube packing on boats were: braided jute fiber, and, braided flax. Both of these packings would be impregnated with tallow.

For longer life or more rigorous service, asbestos fiber was often braided into the packing along with the flax or jute fiber.

At some of the smaller hydroelectric plants, we were using square braided packing in the stuffing boxes on the turbine shafts. The original packing material had been a combination of flax or jute plus asbestos fiber, with tallow. When the crackdown on use of asbestos containing materials happened, sometime in the 1990's, we had to find alternative packing materials. This was a trial-and-error process, and packing salesmen were trying to convince us to buy their brand of packing material. Come to find most of the salesmen were neither ex mechanics, ex engineers, nor any other profession where they'd had firsthand operating experience with packings on pumps, turbines, valves or other applications.

The first wave of replacement packings were braided synthetic fiber which was heavily impregnated with Teflon. All sorts of claims were made as to how great this new type of packing material was, maintenance free, etc. We wound up with deeply scored shaft sleeves in the stuffing boxes from the Teflon packing, and had some of the stuffing boxes run so hot as to smoke the packing- and we had not tightened the glands beyond just snug. The next wave of super-duper packing materials were touted as "zero leakage" and "maintenance free"- being made from graphited ribbon material. This proved to be a crock, and the salesmen who supervised the installation of the packings blamed 'unforseen operating conditions' (cold water on a hydro turbine shaft). Then came yet another wave of 'even better' packing material- this being "Gore Tex" fiber braided with graphite impregnation.

We had situations where we'd install the packing under the guidance of a factory representative from the packing maker. We'd release the clearance (lock out, tag out) on the turbine and 'water up', then go for a startup. Not too long into the trial run, we sometimes had these new generation packings get so hot as to form steam internally and blow apart in the stuffing box. We'd have a flood of water coming out around the packing gland (and we are talking about 16" diameter shafts, so a lot of water). We'd hurriedly shut the upstream 84" butterfly valves, and then have to have a mobile crane set stoplogs on the downstream (draft tube) end of the turbine before we could address the packing issues.

It seemed like when we got away from the asbestos/jute packing with the tallow, we never quite found a packing that equalled it. We eventually wound up using the braided graphited Goretex or Aramid fiber packing, with a bit more leakage at the glands than we had with the original packings. Of course, by that point in time, having tried a number of new-generation packings, we had some deeply grooved shaft sleeves for the packing to have to conform to. It reached the point where I ordered a castable rubber compound (I think it was called "Reprorubber", also used by veterinarians for repairs to damaged horse hooves). When we'd have a unit down for repacking the turbine shaft, we'd 'make a cast' of the grooving on the shaft journal inside the stuffing box. Grooving over 1/8" deep from some of the new generation packings was common.

As Jim Christie notes, we bought our packing extractors from C.S. Osborne, and always made sure to have a few extra packing extractors on hand. These would sometimes break off at the connection from the 'corkscrew' to the 'speedometer cable' when the mechanics were trying to pull a ring of 1" square braid packing that had been compressed (per the salesman's instructions) until it was rock hard. We also bought gasket punches from C.S. Osborne, and we used what was known as the "All Pax" gasket cutter ( a kind of beam compass with a small knife blade) for cutting circular gaskets.

As I wrote at an earlier point in time on this 'board, we had a lot of different gasket materials stored in an area of the powerhouse. A table was setup for gasket cutting. As I wrote a few years back, some of the gasket material, or 'sheet packing' included a compressed cork material with the trade-name of "Firefly", and was made in England. Tyrone had replied to that post that he had worked at the Turner company where the "Firefly" sheet packing was manufactured. Interesting reflections on the part of Tyrone, describing the specialized braiding machines, and the use of tallow- and the rats that it attracted.

I remember as a young engineer, learning that braided packing- at least in the USA- is sold by the pound, not by the linear inch or foot. I'd figure how many linear inches of a particular size of square braid packing was needed to repack a valve, pump shaft or turbine shaft, and add something to allow for cutting angled joints and just a general 'fudge factor'. I'd call the packing sales representative and they'd respond with a quote based on how many pounds of packing were needed. As I discovered early on, braided packing is quite pricey, even in the days before Goretex, Aramid fiber and all the new materials.

One old tried-and-true packing we went back to is the "Palmetto" packing. This is a basic 'stern tube' type packing, and actually gives better service on some applications around the hydroelectric plants than the new super-duper packing materials. A fact many people do not realize is that a stuffing box is SUPPOSED to leak a little. This is to lubricate the packing and keep it cool. The classic story is told of a visitor to a ship's engine room seeing the tailshaft and sterntube packing. The ship was underway, and the tailshaft packing gland was dripping merrily away. The visitor became alarmed and asked the engineer showing him around why there was a 'leak', and was the ship in danger of sinking.

This thread bring back a memory of a situation we had on our local tourist railroad. A few years back, they had some issues with water pump shafts on some Alco (American Locomotive Company) diesel locomotive engines. Someone had gotten the bright idea of using a Teflon containing packing and reefing up on the packing gland. This produced more leakage and the packings smoked. Naturally, the engine crews tightened the glands even more. I got a call to take a look and do something. I measured the stuffing box and determined the size of square braid, then ordered some of the Palmetto packing. I showed the guys who were on the engine crews how to repack the water pumps, and I made a point of showing them that the correct way was to make sure to get ALL of the old packing removed. I had ordered a couple of sets of the Osborne flexible packing pullers, and those did the trick.

The Palmetto packing also did the trick. I explained that with a stuffing box type of packing and a scored (or grooved) pump shaft, some leakage to the tune of a few drops a minute meant things were just right. With the locomotives in service, I had the fellows check the pump stuffing boxes for excessive heat, and they were running nice and cool. I told the fellows to forget anything they heard about using Teflon impregnated packing on the locomotive water pumps and to disregard the individual who switched over to using it. As I had learned in my experience at the hydroelectric plants, Teflon in packing material is not an automatic 'cure all' or 'magic material'. On the contrary- it seems to run hotter and seems more abrasive than the simpler fiber/tallow type packings.
 
If the OP was talking about NPT threaded joints, in the old days it was coarse thread wound into the threads, with white lead over that before the joint was screwed up. Some of the joints in my home were made up that way, by the original owner who was a plumber they say Timeframe 1895 or so.

Modern version is as Joe mentioned teflon tape. If done properly this can produce a mass-spec helium leak-tight joint. For home use it is often backed up with blue pipe dope - belt, AND suspenders.

If anyone wants to hear about it, one of the best pipe dopes made today is made by Swagelock, and is called SWAK. Basically fine teflon particles in an anerobic adhesive. Completely trouble free and a perfect seal every time, even if the threads on either, or both parts, are dodgy.

Permatex makes a similar product and it's good too.

The fibre is or was hemp, teased out with a bit of grease or tallow on it- back in the day real plumbers used tallow for wiping joints in lead pipe so it was at hand.
I can still buy hemp for this purpose and can confirm that it still works well on water pipes.
 
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Somewhere in the stuff I inherited from my father, there is an original wiping cloth, used when "wiping a joint". The 'traditional' wiping cloths were made of blue striped mattress 'ticking', a heavy cotton fabric, and were coated by the plumbers with tallow- as noted by Greenwud.

Dad worked for the City of NY as a construction inspector, and had been a journeyman plumber before WWII. He knew the 'old ways'- calking and running joints on cast iron soil pipe, and lead work done on lead water service pipes. He taught me a bit of this kind of work when I was a kid. Dad, as well as an uncle of mine who was a licensed master plumber, told me that in a pinch they would use folded up newspaper as a wiping cloth.

The houses in the neighborhood I grew up in all had steam heat. As time went on , people's radiators would start really knocking during the heating seasons. This was due to a combination of piping moving relative to the house structure (or vice-versa), or wood flooring and framing moving and "settling" under the radiators. There was a licensed plumber on our block, but he and his family were real SOB's, no one anyone wanted to have much to do with. Dad, being a good hearted man and known as someone who could solve most problems, was the 'go to' guy. We'd get a call from one of the neighbors that their radiators were knocking. This was due to trapped condensate in the radiators, which the steam would push ahead when it entered the radiators. The slugs of condensate would hit the cast iron sections of the radiator with considerable force and it could wake up an entire household. Dad would have me come along to help him. The first thing was to get a potato sack or similar burlap sack and put our tools and supplies into it. This was to avoid being seen by the plumber- who lived across the street from us- as carrying plumber's tools. He would have called a complaint in to my father's employer, the NYC Department of Buildings. In the sack we put the usual pipe wrenches, a cheater pipe, a 'spud' for removing the 'tailpieces' of the radiator valves ( a brass half union with male threaded tail which made up to the outlet of the radiator valves). We always took a short crowbar, wood shims, Hercules pipe dope, and a ball of wicking. We also took an ice pick (for cleaning old dope and wicking out of threads), and a level (to establish a good pitch on the radiator). We sometimes took along some additional pipe nipples, and maybe a union or coupling or two.

We would 'break the joints' and get the radiator loose, then tip it up and drain the condensate into a pan. After that, it was a game to re-set the radiator with a good pitch on it. Since we'd 'broken the joints', Dad always had me clean the pipe threads with the ice pick, and then we'd go back together with fine wicking and pipe dope. To be sure, Dad would put some pipe dope on the male cone of the half-union on the radiator valve and lay a neat ring of wicking in the dope. He'd then put a coat of pipe dope on the female cone on the radiator valve. We'd shim the radiators to get a good pitch using pieces of cedar shakes, or thin pieces of 1/4" plywood. Another thing we did was to check the packing nuts on the radiator valves, snugging them if they needed it.

Breaking the joints to start the job was always fun. Dad would use two wrenches, one being what he called a 'hold back', and put cheater pipes on them if things did not break with just the leverage of the wrenches themselves. Going back together, Dad did not use the cheater pipes, just drew things up with the pipe wrenches. If there was a leak, the neighbors would call and we'd come back with the cheater pipes.

No money was offered nor expected for doing this work, as neighbors took care of each other. I was always a proud kid to be helping on these jobs. Dad was a great teacher of a lot more than basic skills at things like plumbing, electrical or carpentry work. Dad was a great believer in the use of wicking and pipe dope but he was careful and sparing in how he applied them. I learned a little lead work from my father, mainly soldering with a copper. The main service pipe into our house (a 4 family) was soft lead, dating to the 1920's. It had a brass ferrule 'let in' to the end where it connected to the house service pipe ( 1 1/4" galvanized as I recall). Dad did show me some lead work on a chunk of lead pipe and let me try my hand it wiping a joint.

My uncle (Dad's brother in law) was a licensed master plumber and WWI veteran. He was given to strong opinions and boasting, and was one of those plumbers who believed brute strength was an essential for becoming a plumber ahead of brains and skill. I was maybe 14 or thereabouts, and Dad got tired of this guy's boasts and carryings on at family gatherings. Dad wanted me to go take the plumber's licensing exam, even though I was underage and had no time served 'with the tools' as an apprentice of helper- all or which were required. The exam had a written portion as well as practical, which, in those days, consisted of making up cast iron soil pipe (running a couple of joints on 3" soil pipe), letting in a ferrule on soft lead pipe, and making up screwed piping for water and gas. Dad was sure I'd pass the plumber's licensing exam, and I was game to take it. Whether Dad ever investigated that possibility for me or not is something I never knew. I remember Dad telling his brother-in-law: "Joe could pass the master plumber's licensing exam right now" and watching his brother in law start to bluster, curse, and sputter. Great times back then, when a plumber was a plumber. No PVC pipe, copper had to be sweated using silver brazing if used in YC limits, and PEX was not even a figment of anyone's imagination. Now, it seems like anyone can do half-assed plumbing with PEX and 'Shark Bite' fittings.

I am a traditionalist, and refuse to use PEX for anything in my own house. It's copper piping with neatly sweated joints for potable cold, hot and heating system water, screwed black iron for propane and larger diameter hydronic heating service piping, and rigid PVC for waste disposal (with return loop venting), rigid PVC condensate drainage from the A/C evaporators. Screwed black iron for compressed air service piping. Proper pitch and pipe hangers on all of it. Swagelok fittings and neat bending on any tubing run for compressed air or gauge lines. Anytime I make up piping, I hear my old man, and make sure the piping is well run. Dad used to tell me good piping, properly run, should look 'like it grew there'. Dad loved getting onto powerplant jobsites with me and seeing the piping and the work I was doing. Stuff beyond his wildest imagination when he saw schedule 160 chrome moly pipe with welded joints, and runs of instrument tubing neatly run with Swagelok fittings.
 








 
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