Setting shaper ram gib

Mr. Fixit · Aug 19, 2018

Hi all,

I am in the midst of a rebuild/refinishing of an old shaper and noticed a bit of side to side play in the Ram if gently pushed from one side the the other when extended to the front or back. Other than simply taking out the play with the adjustment, i am wondering if there is a rule of thumb for how many thou is normaly set with a feeler?

Thank you,

Steve

rj1939 · Aug 19, 2018

I'm going to guesstimate that about 2 thousandths per side would be about right. Of course, it will probably not be worn evenly, so achieving that may be tricky.

JST · Aug 19, 2018

It will almost certainly be worn so as to not be really possible to get the slop out, unless it has been re-scraped at some fairly recent time.

depends what stroke was usually used, what sort of tools were usually used, etc. Those might affect what the wear pattern is. The few I have dealt with had a bit of a "saddle" wear, belled out at front of fixed way, and matching wear on side of ram. Plus, of course, "droop wear", which has much the same effect on a dovetail way shaper. On some that have box ways, droop wear would not have that effect.

Mr. Fixit · Aug 20, 2018

rj1939 said:
I'm going to guesstimate that about 2 thousandths per side would be about right. Of course, it will probably not be worn evenly, so achieving that may be tricky.

To the extent possible without (removing the ram completely),I have cleaned the dovetail sides and bottoms of all dirt, and oil after removing the gib from the machine. I then installed the gib and adjusted it to where i thought it should be by feel. I pushed the ram to the fixed side and checked the side play at the fromt and back odf the ram. At the back, i got .0045 and at the front I got .003. I think that is odd, as i expected the opposite results.

With that said, in order to recieve those results, the gib is adjusted such that the front of it is protruding from the casting of the column and would need to be ground back about .200 Is the something that is done on occasion?

Thank you very much for your response and direction.

Mr. Fixit · Aug 20, 2018

JST said:
It will almost certainly be worn so as to not be really possible to get the slop out, unless it has been re-scraped at some fairly recent time.

depends what stroke was usually used, what sort of tools were usually used, etc. Those might affect what the wear pattern is. The few I have dealt with had a bit of a "saddle" wear, belled out at front of fixed way, and matching wear on side of ram. Plus, of course, "droop wear", which has much the same effect on a dovetail way shaper. On some that have box ways, droop wear would not have that effect.

What you are saying does make sense. The machine is in overall very good condition and worth the effort of restoration in my opinion. I am hoping that a scraping isnt required, but i really won't know until i make some chips and measure the parts that come off. The machine came from England and looks to be bullet proof, but i suppose all of the machines of the era were built to last

Thank you for the insight..

rj1939 · Aug 20, 2018

Put a shim behind the gib to keep it in proper orientation

stephen thomas · Aug 20, 2018

If I re-scraped the machine and knew its ways, not sure I would adjust it for .004" total clearance on a small machine. I'd probably aim for closer to 0015" -.002" total with a pressure oiled machine. Hate to think of much more than .002. More clearance encourages more wear at the ends of the column and the areas of the ram most used. A worn machine or one with too much clearance is going to make cutting square parallel shoulders difficult. On a dovetail ram machine, the side clearance is also geometrically related to the vertical clearance, and so is a factor in the ram float and fall.

If the machine is worn, there isn't much choice but to adjust it to where the tightest spots of the usable ram stroke will still move somewhat freely.

(About 20 years ago i rescraped the front end of my 16" heavy scraper including the table and outboard ways. The columns ways were nearly perfect, & the ram ways did not quite need rescraped at that time)

smt

Mr. Fixit · Aug 20, 2018

rj1939 said:
Put a shim behind the gib to keep it in proper orientation

Sometimes I miss the obvious, great idea. I just checked it out carefully and with the gib even at the front and back, I have .005 at the rear and a snug .003 at the front. Based upon your suggestion, I was thinking of shimming the back half with .002 shim stock in order to get .003 at the back and then I can adjust from there. Thoughts? Thank you for your help..

Steve

Mr. Fixit · Aug 20, 2018

stephen thomas said:
If I re-scraped the machine and knew its ways, not sure I would adjust it for .004" total clearance on a small machine. I'd probably aim for closer to 0015" -.002" total with a pressure oiled machine. Hate to think of much more than .002. More clearance encourages more wear at the ends of the column and the areas of the ram most used. A worn machine or one with too much clearance is going to make cutting square parallel shoulders difficult. On a dovetail ram machine, the side clearance is also geometrically related to the vertical clearance, and so is a factor in the ram float and fall.

If the machine is worn, there isn't much choice but to adjust it to where the tightest spots of the usable ram stroke will still move somewhat freely.

(About 20 years ago i rescraped the front end of my 16" heavy scraper including the table and outboard ways. The columns ways were nearly perfect, & the ram ways did not quite need rescraped at that time)

smt

The machine is an 18" stroke Brook Shaper and it does have dovetails. It is manually oiled, not pressure oiled. With that information would you still suggest less than .004 total?

Thank you,

Steve

rj1939 · Aug 20, 2018

I was opting for a little looser setup goin in, after a while running, then it could be tightened up. Dovetails make it trickier to measure wear...........I'm liking box ways better all the time. FFo

Mr. Fixit · Aug 20, 2018

rj1939 said:
I was opting for a little looser setup goin in, after a while running, then it could be tightened up. Dovetails make it trickier to measure wear...........I'm liking box ways better all the time. FFo

Once I get all of the refinishing completed i think I will setit up as you have suggested bygetting the front and back as close to the same as possible with about .004 and then dialing on from there. More to come.

Thank you,

Steve

rj1939 · Aug 20, 2018

I'm just getting a ATW 15 inch back into usable condition, it has box ways. I let it run for a good long time, making full strokes without cutting anything, just so it would break in, then I could evaluate its condition and try to figure out what it needs.
g

Mr. Fixit · Aug 21, 2018

rj1939 said:
I'm just getting a ATW 15 inch back into usable condition, it has box ways. I let it run for a good long time, making full strokes without cutting anything, just so it would break in, then I could evaluate its condition and try to figure out what it needs.
g

Very nice. Good luck. I will post some pictures as I get further along.

rj1939 · Aug 21, 2018

Do you have any original scrape marks left on the ram?

Mr. Fixit · Aug 21, 2018

rj1939 said:
Do you have any original scrape marks left on the ram?

Yes, but faint as seen in the attached. The horizontal lines are oil, not scratches.

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