Shapers - Logan vs Brodhead-Garrett J-line
Close
Login to Your Account
Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Montana
    Posts
    59
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default Shapers - Logan vs Brodhead-Garrett J-line

    Relatively new to the forum and am looking at a couple of shapers. Looking for information and comments; I have a few questions about the two in the title. Am I in the correct section?

    Thanks,

    Doug

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    5,867
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5875
    Likes (Received)
    2279

    Default

    The moderators may move this to the antique machinery section, which is where discussion of shapers is allowed.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Montana
    Posts
    59
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sfriedberg View Post
    The moderators may move this to the antique machinery section, which is where discussion of shapers is allowed.
    Thanks - good to know I'm in the right category. Here's the situation; I'm looking at two shapers for sale, both here in my small town (yes, very fortunate, I know.) Both sellers are friends of mine and they also are friends with each other. One machine is a Logan and the other is a Brodhead-Garrett J-line. Both are the 8" model. The Logan is single phase and the B-G is three phase. Not really an issue as I have a phase converter. I know that B-G bought the rights to Logan at some point and rebranded these shapers moving forward. The SN on the Logan begins with "12" and the only SN registry for Logan I can find starts with the numbers 13 in 1953, so this machine is probably older than 1953. The SN of the B-G machine is 685. I've been able to find no SN registry for the B-G, however it looks like Logan stopped making these machines under their name in 1966 so the B-G must be 1966 or newer.

    B-G made several changes to the Logal model under their name:

    1) Came with a heavier duty vise.
    2) Provided a more efficient lubrication system to the variable-speed pulley shaft.
    3) Table travel was about an inch more in both directions.
    4) Two motor sizes, half and three quarter HP for both single and three phase models (haven't determined the HP rating of either of the machines in question yet.)
    5) Provided a cover for the rear pulley system. Since B-G focused on school sales, safety was probably a priority.

    Any additional information about these machines and their ages would be appreciated. All comments and questions welcome.

    Thanks,

    Doug

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Montana
    Posts
    59
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dtapster View Post
    Thanks - good to know I'm in the right category. Here's the situation; I'm looking at two shapers for sale, both here in my small town (yes, very fortunate, I know.) Both sellers are friends of mine and they also are friends with each other. One machine is a Logan and the other is a Brodhead-Garrett J-line. Both are the 8" model. The Logan is single phase and the B-G is three phase. Not really an issue as I have a phase converter. I know that B-G bought the rights to Logan at some point and rebranded these shapers moving forward. The SN on the Logan begins with "12" and the only SN registry for Logan I can find starts with the numbers 13 in 1953, so this machine is probably older than 1953. The SN of the B-G machine is 685. I've been able to find no SN registry for the B-G, however it looks like Logan stopped making these machines under their name in 1966 so the B-G must be 1966 or newer.

    B-G made several changes to the Logal model under their name:

    1) Came with a heavier duty vise.
    2) Provided a more efficient lubrication system to the variable-speed pulley shaft.
    3) Table travel was about an inch more in both directions.
    4) Two motor sizes, half and three quarter HP for both single and three phase models (haven't determined the HP rating of either of the machines in question yet.)
    5) Provided a cover for the rear pulley system. Since B-G focused on school sales, safety was probably a priority.

    Any additional information about these machines and their ages would be appreciated. All comments and questions welcome.

    Thanks,

    Doug
    Anybody out there???

    Doug

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Damascus, MD
    Posts
    1,716
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5072
    Likes (Received)
    977

    Default

    I think that, given that the two shapers are very similar, I would get the one in best mechanical conditions (e.g. less wear, less play in sliding block, gears, etc.) and that comes with most accessories, like tool holders, etc.

    I am not very familiar with Logan shapers (I have seen and inspected a few Logan, not a single G-B, as far as I remember), therefore there could be something specific to this shapers that one need to watch for, and I am unaware of it. At least in theory, better lubrication and being newer would be a strong point in favor of the G-B but, after over half a century, what really counts is the actual wear (and, perhaps, things not mentioned about the G-B one could include switching to zinc alloys for some gears and parts).

    Paolo

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Country
    AUSTRALIA
    Posts
    5,062
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    33
    Likes (Received)
    1829

    Default

    One thing to always check with shapers is the teeth on the bull gear where the load is taken.....generally all the wear is on less than 10 teeth....and most shapers you cant rotate the gear relative to the drive pin......The sliding block should be checked for wear ,as the slot in the arm....but this wear is fairly easily fixed .

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Montana
    Posts
    59
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Paolo_MD View Post
    I think that, given that the two shapers are very similar, I would get the one in best mechanical conditions (e.g. less wear, less play in sliding block, gears, etc.) and that comes with most accessories, like tool holders, etc.

    I am not very familiar with Logan shapers (I have seen and inspected a few Logan, not a single G-B, as far as I remember), therefore there could be something specific to this shapers that one need to watch for, and I am unaware of it. At least in theory, better lubrication and being newer would be a strong point in favor of the G-B but, after over half a century, what really counts is the actual wear (and, perhaps, things not mentioned about the G-B one could include switching to zinc alloys for some gears and parts).

    Paolo
    Paolo, thanks for your comments; you've made some good points. I will know more about the condition of each machine when I see and hear them run next week, hopefully. Will try to take a close look at the metal used on the B-G to see if anything looks suspicious.

    I was hoping someone here would know the "birthdates" of both machines. In my research, those dates haven't been found yet.

    Thanks,

    Doug

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    L'Orignal, Ontario Canada
    Posts
    2,443
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2703
    Likes (Received)
    1101

    Default

    Maybe you have seen the Logan Information on this site.
    Logan Engineering Co. - Publication Reprints | VintageMachinery.org
    There are some Catalogues and parts lists for an 8" shaper there.
    While they may not support the shaper there may be some more information from this company that supports the lathes.
    Logan Home Page
    I think a member of the Logan family that ran this company was a member on this forum at one time .
    I haven't seen any posts by him recently.
    Perhaps someone else on this forum will remember more .
    Jim

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Montana
    Posts
    59
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Christie View Post
    Maybe you have seen the Logan Information on this site.
    Logan Engineering Co. - Publication Reprints | VintageMachinery.org
    There are some Catalogues and parts lists for an 8" shaper there.
    While they may not support the shaper there may be some more information from this company that supports the lathes.
    Logan Home Page
    I think a member of the Logan family that ran this company was a member on this forum at one time .
    I haven't seen any posts by him recently.
    Perhaps someone else on this forum will remember more .
    Jim
    Yes, I'm familiar with and have been to the VM website and was able to print out Owner's Manuals for both machines; they are very similar but not exactly. The manual for the Logan machine was obviously for the later model machines as it reflects some parts/features on the later machines no on the one I'm looking (earlier SN.) The Brodhead-Garrett machine is a later model and has the updated features. Still not a clear winner yet, at lest in my view. Hopefully a closer inspection of both machines as well as seeing/hearing them run will bring the decision more in focus.

    Thanks,

    Doug

  10. Likes Jim Christie liked this post
  11. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Montana
    Posts
    59
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    One thing to always check with shapers is the teeth on the bull gear where the load is taken.....generally all the wear is on less than 10 teeth....and most shapers you cant rotate the gear relative to the drive pin......The sliding block should be checked for wear ,as the slot in the arm....but this wear is fairly easily fixed .
    John,

    Thanks for the tips. Is the bull gear the one at the rear with the cover over it? Will definitely take a look at the dovetail ways for wear.

    Doug

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Dearborn, Michigan
    Posts
    1,467
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    123
    Likes (Received)
    296

    Default

    We need you to post pictures of both machines.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    emporium pa
    Posts
    511
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    33
    Likes (Received)
    190

    Default

    Doug,
    I have a Logan 7" Shaper Serial#12S63. Fine little machine. The only literature I could could find was for the 8" and they are very similar. Here are a couple pics of mine doing real work. Cutting internal key to a dead shoulder and squaring a big cast iron block. The BG may have some upgraded features. Porter Cable is in the mix there too with the same style machine.
    spaeth
    dscn2028.jpgdscn2025.jpgdscn2253.jpgdscn2255.jpg

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Montana
    Posts
    59
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank R View Post
    We need you to post pictures of both machines.
    Here are a few shots of the Brodhead-Garrett J-Line:

    shaper2-copy.jpgshaper3.jpgshaper.jpgshaper1.jpg

    Don't know why can't seem to delete the BP photo! *%$#&
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails bp.jpg  

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Montana
    Posts
    59
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spaeth View Post
    Doug,
    I have a Logan 7" Shaper Serial#12S63. Fine little machine. The only literature I could could find was for the 8" and they are very similar. Here are a couple pics of mine doing real work. Cutting internal key to a dead shoulder and squaring a big cast iron block. The BG may have some upgraded features. Porter Cable is in the mix there too with the same style machine.
    spaeth
    dscn2028.jpgdscn2025.jpgdscn2253.jpgdscn2255.jpg
    Thanks for the photos, Spaeth! Nice to see one of these old classics actually doing some work. From my research it seems that metal shapers are among the most underutilized machines in the shop.

    Doug

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Montana
    Posts
    59
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank R View Post
    We need you to post pictures of both machines.
    Photos of Logan shaper: (don't know why they are sideways???)

    20211019_143627.jpg20211019_143638.jpg20211019_144633.jpg

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Montana
    Posts
    59
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default

    BTW, I spoke with Scott Logan today (his grandfather founded the company.) He said the Logan I'm looking at was made in 1942. Logan made those shapers through 1966. After that they were all made under the Brodhead-Garrett J-line badge. That means that the B-G machine is at least 14 years newer than the Logan machine.

    Was able to see the Logan machine in operation today. Didn't machine any material but it ran smoothly and all the features seemed to operate correctly. Confirmed it is the 1/2 HP model rather than the 3/4 HP. Hopefully will be able to see the B-G machine operate this week, possibly on Wednesday.

    Doug

    P.S. The B-G machine has some upgraded features, beginning with the larger vise and the cover for the drive belt. May be others I'm not aware of. Logan is single phase, B-G is 3-phase. I have an RPC.

  18. Likes Jim Christie liked this post
  19. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    emporium pa
    Posts
    511
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    33
    Likes (Received)
    190

    Default

    Doug, That is a really nice looking Logan. It has a couple different features than mine. T-slots on the side of the table mine has a V groove for holding round stock. Also yours has the front support bracket on the table. Looks like the linkage is missing that regulates the cross feed. You can see what it looks like on the pic I added. The vice is original, maybe that machine has not many hours on it. They both look desirable.
    spaeth
    dscn2019.jpg

  20. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Montana
    Posts
    59
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spaeth View Post
    Doug, That is a really nice looking Logan. It has a couple different features than mine. T-slots on the side of the table mine has a V groove for holding round stock. Also yours has the front support bracket on the table. Looks like the linkage is missing that regulates the cross feed. You can see what it looks like on the pic I added. The vice is original, maybe that machine has not many hours on it. They both look desirable.
    spaeth
    dscn2019.jpg
    Good eye, Spaeth! The linkage and all parts are there, just not in those pics. This machine was in storage for years and some of the parts removed from the unit and shrink wrapped to it so they wouldn't get lost. We installed the linkage today and fired it up and all seemed normal. It is obviously in nice shape for a machine almost 80 years old. Seller is a friend of mine who bought a "package" deal from a friend of his who was liquidating his shop. My friend is more of a woodworker, hence this machine is for sale.

    I think the picture will become more clear when I see and hear the Brodhead-Garrett J-Line in operation, hopefully soon.

    Doug

  21. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Montana
    Posts
    59
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    18

    Default

    Just an FYI - Was able to take another look at the Brodhead- Garrett machine today. It has a Baldor motor and is the 3/4 HP version. The Logan has a 1/2 HP motor so I don't know how much more of an advantage the extra 1/4 HP is - maybe someone can shed some light on this? Was not able to see it in operation yet. No plug on cord and owner was not there today.


    Was offered a package deal today on the Logan + a Delta 14" metal cutting bandsaw (nice bandsaw) - $1,000. Price on the Brodhead-Garrett is $1,000 for the shaper alone; possibly come down to $900 but that would be the bottom line.

    Doug

  22. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Dearborn, Michigan
    Posts
    1,467
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    123
    Likes (Received)
    296

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dtapster View Post
    Just an FYI - Was able to take another look at the Brodhead- Garrett machine today. It has a Baldor motor and is the 3/4 HP version. The Logan has a 1/2 HP motor so I don't know how much more of an advantage the extra 1/4 HP is - maybe someone can shed some light on this? Was not able to see it in operation yet. No plug on cord and owner was not there today.


    Was offered a package deal today on the Logan + a Delta 14" metal cutting bandsaw (nice bandsaw) - $1,000. Price on the Brodhead-Garrett is $1,000 for the shaper alone; possibly come down to $900 but that would be the bottom line.

    Doug
    Delta 14" metal cutting bandsaws generally sell for around $600 around here. I would take the package.

  23. Likes Rick Hand, 3512B liked this post

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •