Sip MP4 Jig Borer

glassman · Dec 6, 2016

I have a SIP jig borer model MP4, serial #88. I would like to obtain any information on this model. Thanks all.

SIP6A · Dec 6, 2016

Could you post some pictures?

I have material on #4 SIP jig borer's but don't know if I have anything on a machine that old.

glassman · Dec 7, 2016

Thanks. Here are some pics of the machine. My guess is early 1920's but I'd like to be able to verify that.

TedinNorfolk · Dec 8, 2016

Very nice-I used to have No.166 and I thought that was old!

Electrik7 · Nov 15, 2019

Hello. I have a question regarding the MP-4 jig borer. I've bought a machine of this type but, sadly, the transportation company dropped it in-transit. Apparently, they dropped it on its side which resulted in a bent slotted driveshaft, broken upper bracket of said driveshaft and broken transmission from the vertical slotted shaft to the horizontal one. But what worries me the most is the geometry of the main frame. Could this machine survive a side-fall without it's main frame being skewed?

I think I could find a welder competent enaugh to repair the broken bracket and the transmission casing and I think I could straighten the driveshaft but if the geometry of the main frame is gone it's beyond my skill. Is it even worth checking up the geometry or it's definitely gone? I'd be very gratefull for an opinion or an advice from a person who is knowledgeable with such machines. I feel really bad about scrapping such a historical machine.

SIP6A · Nov 15, 2019

Your machine is scrap, start looking for another machine.

Tyrone Shoelaces · Nov 16, 2019

I'm afraid it's damaged beyond repair. The alignments of the major elements are super critical and they're bound to be disturbed.

Regards Tyrone.

Rob F. · Nov 16, 2019

If it was mine I would spend about 10 minutes to check some alignments. If the 10 min check looked good then go back in and do a real check, if the 10 minute check shows bad then no need to waste any more time on it.
We or you dont really know what it landed on, it could have crushed a pile of boxes (marked fragile of course) that softened the landing. I think if it fell off the truck it would be more broken.
If it turns out that the bent shaft& broken cover cover is the only damage go quickly and buy a lottery ticket

If it is bad you can always buy another one and have this one for parts.

Doozer · Nov 16, 2019

As a fellow owner if an MP-4,
I would like to offer my sympathy for your situation.
These machines are just so beautiful.
I hope you check your machine out and find it not too bad.
Best of luck.

-Doozer

Tyrone Shoelaces · Nov 17, 2019

Doozer said:
As a fellow owner if an MP-4,
I would like to offer my sympathy for your situation.
These machines are just so beautiful.
I hope you check your machine out and find it not too bad.
Best of luck.

-Doozer

The place I served my time at had the 1940's version of that machine. It was in a sort of greenhouse/ shed that had been partially made from the packing case it came in during the 1939-45 War. Wood was hard to come by in those days apparently.

They are a work of art in my opinion but you can't give them away over here nowadays.

Regards Tyrone.

Doozer · Nov 17, 2019

Hey Tyrone,
Very cool that you used one of these MP-4 machines.
I have the exact machine that Glassman has pictured here.
I have a question....
Are there any safety stops for the down and up quill feed?
I have been very careful not to allow them to feed the quill
to the limits. Just wondering.
Also, there seems to be a drain hose from the table area
that goes back to the sump of the transmission gearbox.
Additionally, on the reansmission gearbox, there seems to
be what resembles an oil pump. It has a plug in a pipe
thread port. All this make me think that the transmission
gearbox has a pump that can be used to pump gearbox oil
for use as a coolant/lubricant for cutting/drilling/boring.
Seems very odd to use gearbox oil for cutting lubricant,
but sure enough it appears that the table drains back to
the gearbox sump. Any insight into this??
Also, how much did you use the small spindle?
Mine has a WW 8mm collet. Thanks.

--Doozer

phm87 · Nov 17, 2019

Tyrone Shoelaces said:
The place I served my time at had the 1940's version of that machine. It was in a sort of greenhouse/ shed that had been partially made from the packing case it came in during the 1939-45 War. Wood was hard to come by in those days apparently.

They are a work of art in my opinion but you can't give them away over here nowadays.

Regards Tyrone.

If you want` to give an MP-4 to me Tyrone, feel free, it might have to sit in my lounge though? Or any other SIP would be most welcome for that matter.

Tyrone Shoelaces · Nov 17, 2019

Doozer said:
Hey Tyrone,
Very cool that you used one of these MP-4 machines.
I have the exact machine that Glassman has pictured here.
I have a question....
Are there any safety stops for the down and up quill feed?
I have been very careful not to allow them to feed the quill
to the limits. Just wondering.
Also, there seems to be a drain hose from the table area
that goes back to the sump of the transmission gearbox.
Additionally, on the reansmission gearbox, there seems to
be what resembles an oil pump. It has a plug in a pipe
thread port. All this make me think that the transmission
gearbox has a pump that can be used to pump gearbox oil
for use as a coolant/lubricant for cutting/drilling/boring.
Seems very odd to use gearbox oil for cutting lubricant,
but sure enough it appears that the table drains back to
the gearbox sump. Any insight into this??
Also, how much did you use the small spindle?
Mine has a WW 8mm collet. Thanks.

--Doozer

Sorry matey, I was only an apprentice then. The guy who ran it was very proud of the machine and you were only allowed in the shed by special invitation so I didn't know a great deal about it. I just know he keep it in pristine condition and I was occasionally sent in to help in lifting large components off the table with him. I wasn't that young that I couldn't recognise a lovely piece of engineering though.

Regards Tyrone.

glassman · Nov 22, 2019

As it turns out, my SIP MP4 #88 was made in 1928 and shipped originally to GE in Lowell MA. I have used it for almost 10 yeas as a measuring machine to measure highly accurate aspheric lenses up to 300mm in diameter to a surface form accuracy of 0.002mm. Remarkable for 1928! A truly beautiful machine. Shortly, this one will be on its way back to the SIP (Starrag) headquarter in Switzerland for display in their archives. I've done this with a couple other machines-sending them home. Happy Thanksgiving to all.

pressbrake1 · Nov 24, 2019

Tyrone Shoelaces said:
The place I served my time at had the 1940's version of that machine. It was in a sort of greenhouse/ shed that had been partially made from the packing case it came in during the 1939-45 War. Wood was hard to come by in those days apparently.

They are a work of art in my opinion but you can't give them away over here nowadays.

Regards Tyrone.

Not anymore, hard to find thus making reasonable money again if you can find one, and then if its a big un you need deep pockets to pay to move it

LeakyCanoe · Nov 30, 2019

Glassman - that is indeed a beautiful machine. Sorry I can't add to your knowledge base on it.

I do, however, have questions about the custom base as depicted in the photos.

Was that made for that machine specifically or adapted for it from another use ?

Construction details of the base itself ?

Any particular rationale for the multi-level surfaces (swarf, etc.)?

thanks.

SIP6A · Nov 30, 2019

The base is part of the machine. It was made that way becouse of the foundry practice of the time it was made.

Electrik7 · Aug 9, 2020

Dragged the machine in the workshop and cleaned it a bit:

Took the measurment of sideways deflection of the vertical ways from the perpendicular to the table:

The angle rests on the free back surface of the table. The surface has scraping marks so I assumume it's good. There's no gaps between the base of the angle and the table which I could detect with the gauges I have. Took four measurments and they showed that there indeed was a deflection as I feared. 0.34 mm (+-0.04) per 500 mm length. I plan to use this machine to make flat assembly jigs so it doesn't seem to be a big deal but I'm still interested what it would take to repair it back to normal (the norm seems to be +-0.01 mm per 350 mm). It appears that the deformation is concentrated in the lower part of the columns, below the ways. Is hand-scraping the vertical side ways is the only practical way to repair this?

claytonite · Oct 9, 2022

recently got this not sure of the model or ser# as there is nothing really on it, it has a bridgeport j head on it, Im assuming this is not original? the only way i had to get it home was by lifting it from the very top cross beam, would this cause any damage, also had to split it to be able to move it around the shop at all, anything to be aware of when reassembling and does anyone have any idea what kind of runout i should expect on the axes?