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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Froneck View Post
    I have the one that's 4th on the list. As far as I know the light version has an Aluminum housing for the buffer, Standard version is Steel. The Aluminum housing can be purchased so I did and have both.
    I did make a spring guide without the bushing, the bushing is not needed but it helps with assembly and stops the spring from launching across the room when the slide is removed. I have experimented with various springs and in addition to all the springs from Brownells I have all those similar in size from McMaster Carr. Problem with adding a shim to further compress the existing spring is that it nearly totally compressed when slide is open.
    There are a lot of possibilities as to what is happening. Typically the IZH has a light slide and uses a heavy recoil spring to keep the slide closed. The AW93 is very similar being it's design is taken from the IZH. If the slide doe not go back far enough it limits the time the next round has to move up in the magazine. Another issue could be the slide is starting to open too soon. I thought that if I had something to measure slide movement would held determined the cause of the problem. Maybe investing in a high enough speed camera might be the solution.
    You have put more time into it already than I ever would. It even appears you are willng to "write it a blank cheque" on your future time and resources.

    Where's the gain?

  2. #22
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    I am curious about one thing. The drawings show the "break" cylinder (2500.231.1) having a tapered end, which would contact the "breaker" cone (2500.232.1). Is the "breaker" cone split, so it expands and increases its friction in the bushing (2500.230.1) when being driven by the slide? After the slide stops moving compression springs 2500.235.3 would push the break cylinder out of the taper, allowing the other compression spring to push the breaker cone back into place.

    If this system stops the slide before it is fully back, the slide recoil spring is not fully compressed, and may not have the strength to return the slide at the required velocity.

    It looks like the buffer springs are accessible and could be replaced with ones slightly less stiff.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_R_Thiele View Post
    I am curious about one thing. The drawings show the "break" cylinder (2500.231.1) having a tapered end, which would contact the "breaker" cone (2500.232.1). Is the "breaker" cone split, so it expands and increases its friction in the bushing (2500.230.1) when being driven by the slide? After the slide stops moving compression springs 2500.235.3 would push the break cylinder out of the taper, allowing the other compression spring to push the breaker cone back into place.

    If this system stops the slide before it is fully back, the slide recoil spring is not fully compressed, and may not have the strength to return the slide at the required velocity.

    It looks like the buffer springs are accessible and could be replaced with ones slightly less stiff.
    As this saga has unfolded, it seems our Frank has tried MANY things, many times, many ways.

    One does wonders if putting EVERYTHING back to factory "As-Built" (if even it is still POSSIBLE?) might remove a problem that was actually not there.

    ... until Dr. Ing. F**king-with, MSME, with honours, etc. created it?

    Whom among us has never had THAT experience .. at least .. once!


  4. #24
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    Locking Piece Complete assembly 3.5.560.118 and 3.5.570.118 are the same, 560 housing is Aluminum and has weights that can be added as desired by the shooter. 570 is steel. I have both. I didn't like the weight of the steel assembly. They are easily removable, a button just ahead of the trigger guard will release the catch and the assembly will slide forward and come off. Item 3.5.560.108 Safety Latch can be pushed in and rotated 90°. With the above Locking Piece removed the slide is easily removed.
    Gun out of the box had 2 very noticeable issues that were confirmed by other owners. (1) the supposedly completely adjustable trigger wasn't. It was OK if a 2 stage trigger was desired but if attempting to get single stage with small trigger movement the hammer would fall early and follow the slide with no means to fire the gun. I found why it was happening and corrected the cause that was a stupid error by the maker! (2) Common to others that have this pistol is the slide will not automatically lock back reliably after the last shot is fired. This would happen quite often but is not a major concern since all shots have been fired. I continued looking for the cause simply because when shooting a match competitors next to you see you pulling the slide back manually and having it lock open can assume all shots were not fired especially in Rapid fire match limiting time to 10 seconds for 5 shots. The other day when cleaning the gun after a match I think I found the problem. The notch for the locking lever is not long enough, the lever is pushed up by button on the magazine but when the slide travels completely back the forward edge of the notch hits the locking lever pushing it down.Looking at the bottom of the slide it is completely black by what ever process was used to color the steel. Even the spot where the catch contacts the slide is black! However that forward edge is bright shiny steel indicating repeated impact. I lengthened the slot which is now the only place I altered anything on the gun. I just did it but didn't have a chance to test it.
    Having 2 locking pieces I tinkered with one. I removed one spring 2500.235.3 from the piston assembly, didn't help, removed the breaker cone 2500.232.1 with both springs in, didn't help. Spring 2500.236.3 is a very weak spring. However spring in the front of the locking piece also 2500.235.3 which now I'm noticing is the same number as the one in the piston assembly is very strong, difficult to compress with fingers. It's odd that both have the same number! Wow I just noticed the drawing is wrong! Assembly 350.570.118 in the 4th selection and assembly 350.570.118 in the 5th selection drawing have the springs in the piston numbers reversed! Furthermore spring 2500.235.3 can not be interchanged in either configuration!!! As to the problem I had the brass rupture when testing the gun new and just out of the box, cleaned and oiled! I have been trying different ammo since the day I got the gun!! I fixed the trigger problem, I now think I solved the lock-back problem. Only one more and the gun will be perfect!

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Froneck View Post
    Locking Piece Complete assembly 3.5.560.118 and 3.5.570.118 are the same, 560 housing is Aluminum and has weights that can be added as desired by the shooter. 570 is steel. I have both. I didn't like the weight of the steel assembly. They are easily removable, a button just ahead of the trigger guard will release the catch and the assembly will slide forward and come off. Item 3.5.560.108 Safety Latch can be pushed in and rotated 90°. With the above Locking Piece removed the slide is easily removed.
    Gun out of the box had 2 very noticeable issues that were confirmed by other owners. (1) the supposedly completely adjustable trigger wasn't. It was OK if a 2 stage trigger was desired but if attempting to get single stage with small trigger movement the hammer would fall early and follow the slide with no means to fire the gun. I found why it was happening and corrected the cause that was a stupid error by the maker! (2) Common to others that have this pistol is the slide will not automatically lock back reliably after the last shot is fired. This would happen quite often but is not a major concern since all shots have been fired. I continued looking for the cause simply because when shooting a match competitors next to you see you pulling the slide back manually and having it lock open can assume all shots were not fired especially in Rapid fire match limiting time to 10 seconds for 5 shots. The other day when cleaning the gun after a match I think I found the problem. The notch for the locking lever is not long enough, the lever is pushed up by button on the magazine but when the slide travels completely back the forward edge of the notch hits the locking lever pushing it down.Looking at the bottom of the slide it is completely black by what ever process was used to color the steel. Even the spot where the catch contacts the slide is black! However that forward edge is bright shiny steel indicating repeated impact. I lengthened the slot which is now the only place I altered anything on the gun. I just did it but didn't have a chance to test it.
    Having 2 locking pieces I tinkered with one. I removed one spring 2500.235.3 from the piston assembly, didn't help, removed the breaker cone 2500.232.1 with both springs in, didn't help. Spring 2500.236.3 is a very weak spring. However spring in the front of the locking piece also 2500.235.3 which now I'm noticing is the same number as the one in the piston assembly is very strong, difficult to compress with fingers. It's odd that both have the same number! Wow I just noticed the drawing is wrong! Assembly 350.570.118 in the 4th selection and assembly 350.570.118 in the 5th selection drawing have the springs in the piston numbers reversed! Furthermore spring 2500.235.3 can not be interchanged in either configuration!!! As to the problem I had the brass rupture when testing the gun new and just out of the box, cleaned and oiled! I have been trying different ammo since the day I got the gun!! I fixed the trigger problem, I now think I solved the lock-back problem. Only one more and the gun will be perfect!
    B****y HELL!

    THIS ... is supposed to be .. one of the most magical of match-grade competition .22 pistols on the PLANET?

  6. #26
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    Well it's better than anything made in the USA, nothing made here is any good for competition unless modified. The Colt 1911 .45ACP is a very accurate pistol design but any of those made by Colt, Springfield, Kimber, S&W or Ruger are not competition grade. Pardini at this time seems to be the only .22 and .32 good for competition yet their 45ACP is not! Walther also makes a competition ready .22 and .32
    The Germans are usually very good and I'm surprised to see the error in their drawing. They used the Russian designed IZH-35M did a better job of construction but kinda screwed up the trigger system that was the best I've found. Very close the the IZH trigger is the one in MatchGun2, it too has an outstanding trigger. Pardini has taken over as the pistol of choice by Olympic shooters, all the countries involved shoot the Pardini except France that are shooting Matchgun. Interesting that even the Russians are shooting the Pardini. I think the problem with the AW93 is the recoil buffer, as far as I know it's the only pistol that has it. It will probably work if all is exactly correct but add manufacturing tolerance and problem occur. As far as the automatic lock back most Olympic guns don't use it because if it accidentally operated too bad you lost! Also Olympic shooter prefer the 2 stage trigger. So the failure to close or what ever is the main issue and I want to eliminate that from my pistol.

  7. #27
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    Chasing tails...

    A weak magazine spring will cause problems.

    A fast moving slide (Russian style)

    A weak magazine spring will not get cartridge up fast enough.. For clean entry into chamber, and there will be more binding coming out of feed lips.. Chambering slows, gun not quite fully into battery..

    Germans are very good at over complex designs.

    Sounds like if you want a gun that is super accurate, and reliable.. Problems arise.

    Only rifles that work, are interesting...

    Accurate for 2 shots and a jam.. Boring..

    Sounds to me.. a slightly less accurate pistol that WORKS, will outscore a jam-o-matic..

    I shot Feinwerkbau Match air rifles years ago.. They were NOT repeaters...

    As to recoil springs..

    Simple to make..

    Guide rod assy that is not a PITA to remove spring from, should also be easy to make..

  8. #28
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    The recoil spring is easy to remove, 30 seconds or less! Removing the spring from the assembly is not. The guide rod is hardened, holding the spring on the guide rod is a bushing and the rod is staked on both sides so bushing will not come off. I'm told if it is removed staking the guide rod is nearly impossible. But the bushing is not needed it's there so that when the slide is removed the spring is not launched across the room. I did make another guide rod and added a spring without bushing. Yes I had to search for the spring from time to time. Problem is that spring OD can't be much larger and when the slide is fully back it's dam near completely compressed. I have 4 magazines, 2 came with the gun and 2 I purchased from the Feinwerkbau dealer at Camp Perry. All magazines have the problem. Yes I agree a gun that has issues is not as good as a slightly less accurate pistol that has no issues! But at My level, NRA Master I need to shoot above 95% of perfect score to win anything, I would like to get to High Master that is 97% of perfect score.
    I did test my slide lock back fix, fired 50 rounds in each clip loading only one round at a time and lock back worked perfect!!!
    I think the recoils spring has to be increased in pull weight, AMU gunsmiths suggested it. After testing lock back I loaded the magazine full and slooooowly allowed the slide to close, it tends to stop about 1/64" from being fully closed. As suggested I'm going to look into renting a high speed camera.


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