Small Miter gears needed.

Lester Bowman · Aug 9, 2020

Can any one point me to a supplier who has small Miter gears at a reasonable price ? I'm in the beginning stages of Pattern making for a small steam governor which uses Miter gears.

After scaling the full size steam governor It seems I need a Pitch Diameter of .875 but Boston shows only .750 and 1.000 inch PD. Gear needs to be unhardened steel. Diametrical Pitch I can work with but the finer the better. Bore diameter I can work with.

Any reasonably priced gear supplier's out there who won't charge an arm and leg for a dozen of these ?
I can work with Boston part # L99Y which is a bit small but doable. Gears are not my specialty ! I am showing my ignorance for sure

EmGo · Aug 9, 2020

Lester Bowman said:
Can any one point me to a supplier who has small Miter gears at a reasonable price ? I'm in the beginning stages of Pattern making for a small steam governor which uses Miter gears.

After scaling the full size steam governor It seems I need a Pitch Diameter of .875 but Boston shows only .750 and 1.000 inch PD. Gear needs to be unhardened steel. Diametrical Pitch I can work with but the finer the better. Bore diameter I can work with.

Search for Stock Drive Products. They have smaller stuff than Boston or Browning.

You might also look into gears for R/C cars. I am pretty sure I've seen bevels in some of the dirt ones. They might be brass or plastic though.

Joe Michaels · Aug 9, 2020

Hello Lester:

Here are two firms from whom I purchased small drive or power transmission parts when I worked at the powerplant:

W.M. Berg

PIC Designs

These firms have quite a listing for small miter gears. Materials are typically stainless steel for one of the two gears, and anodized aluminum for its mate. This is to keep tooth wear at a very low rate. I have no idea as to prices, but I seem to recall that back when I was ordering parts from these firms, their prices seemed reasonable.

What size/type governor are you scaling down and building ? I have thought along those same lines as far as scaling down a governor, but have to 'build the engine that goes under it' first. My own thought was to scale down a Gardner governor, since their design did not use spring leaves, and I have had a few Gardner governors apart and made parts for them.

Good Luck with your project !

Joe Michaels

Phil in Montana · Aug 9, 2020

You one set or lots?...Phil

1953chevB · Aug 9, 2020

here some info, it appears you need a 14t 16 diametral pitch, .875 Pitch Diameter, there is more
small as I can find is 15 Teeth, one smaller teeth but to small

edit how did you calc out .875 Pitch Diameter

Lester Bowman · Aug 10, 2020

Phil, I'll be needing six pair of these gears.

1953chevB.. Being ignorant of gears I did a bit of looking starting with Boston and ending up at McMaster Carr which not only gave the Pitch diameter but the O.D. of the gear as well. The .750 Pitch has an O.D. of .840. The 1" Pitch Diameter has an O.D anywhere from 1.06 to 1.09 depending on number of teeth and pitch.

One is too small in O.D and the other is too large in O.D. This is how I came up with .875 Pitch diameter. I need in a perfect world 1" O.D Miter gears with a .516 bore but I can always bush down. I also need them to be somewhat reasonable thus I was hoping to find some NOS or off the shelf miter's which would be suitable.

Saying all this I COULD use the .750 pitch gears but was hoping for something a bit more to scale. Pardon me if I have confused the requirement. I appreciate any help.

1953chevB · Aug 10, 2020

Lester

can your rough draw the two shafts and what the theoretical distance of intersection would be?
I could try to draw this up and calculate the closest miter gears.
so from the location datum face to the intersection of both gears is the mounting distance, plus
must allow for gear tooth space backlash , approximately .003-.005
this is so the gears don't bind and self destruct.

Lester Bowman · Aug 10, 2020

Yes. I'll get you a drawing. Thank you !

I had been waiting until I had gears to draw the main governor standard since I would need to make certain changes to accommodate the closest available gears. Seems I've approached this backwards

Tonight I've started scaling the Governor Standard in real life dimension's so hopefully in the next day or two I'll have something you can work with.

I appreciate you giving it a shot. Thanks !

Lester Bowman · Aug 12, 2020

Shown is what I come up with using the old school drafting board. Also shown is a pic of the full size steam governor I am using as a pattern to produce aprox half size governors.

The dimensions mirror each other so I left dimensions off one side for clarity. Largest diameter of gear is .875" ..smaller than the 1" diameter gear I thought I'd need.

Hub length is not critical as most hubs are longer than I need and I can adjust backlash by length of hub.

Gears will be in a very low stress and low speed application. Is this enough information ? Thanks again

1953chevB · Aug 12, 2020

Lester Bowman said:
Shown is what I come up with using the old school drafting board. Also shown is a pic of the full size steam governor I am using as a pattern to produce aprox half size governors.

The dimensions mirror each other so I left dimensions off one side for clarity. Largest diameter of gear is .875" ..smaller than the 1" diameter gear I thought I'd need.

Hub length is not critical as most hubs are longer than I need and I can adjust backlash by length of hub.

Gears will be in a very low stress and low speed application. Is this enough information ? Thanks again

Hi Lester
That's perfect, the .875 is the crown Hight of the bevels, the Pitch Diameter will be slightly smaller.
how soon do you need it, I am working hot projects at moment for a customer, can you wait till the week end?

Lee

Lester Bowman · Aug 12, 2020

I think with these firmer dimension's I have a better chance of finding what I need in an " off the shelf " gear which may suit the bill. Besides that I need twelve of them ( 6 pair ). Let me pursue this route first and we'll go from there.

This is just a fun project and there are no time restraints except death

Thanks for the Crown Height comment. Helps to know what this is called.

EmGo · Aug 12, 2020

Lester Bowman said:
I think with these firmer dimension's I have a better chance of finding what I need in an " off the shelf " gear

https://www.sdp-si.com/PDFS/Bevel-Gears-and-Miter-Gears-Inch.pdf

Thanks for the Crown Height comment. Helps to know what this is called.

Maybe somewhere. I've never seen that expression in any Gleason book tho, or any of Dudley's books, and not in Buckingham, so possibly you'd be better off looking for more common terms.

1953chevB · Aug 12, 2020

EmanuelGoldstein said:
https://www.sdp-si.com/PDFS/Bevel-Gears-and-Miter-Gears-Inch.pdf

Maybe somewhere. I've never seen that expression in any Gleason book tho, or any of Dudley's books, and not in Buckingham, so possibly you'd be better off looking for more common terms.

Emanuel
The USA bible is AGMA 23509, I don't have the latest, but here is a screen shot, it was a slip, it is actual the outside diameter,
the point is called crown point

1953chevB · Aug 12, 2020

High Lester

Thank You

EmGo · Aug 12, 2020

1953chevB said:
Emanuel
The USA bible is AGMA 23509,

Since Dennis Gimpert fucked up AGMA entirely, I wouldn't use those 'standards' to wipe my ass.

There's a free copy of Jones and Ryffel floating around the internet, it's a lot more practical. And bevels don't have a "pitch diameter" by the way.

1953chevB · Aug 12, 2020

EmanuelGoldstein said:
Since Dennis Gimpert fucked up AGMA entirely, I wouldn't use those 'standards' to wipe my ass.

There's a free copy of Jones and Ryffel floating around the internet, it's a lot more practical. And bevels don't have a "pitch diameter" by the way.

LOL no problem it's the USA standard whether we like it or not, I can not stand ISO standards they make them to complicated.
to each their own, now let's quit hijacking the thread.
Start a new thread if you want discus in intelligent manner
there are Aircraft and helicopter and what not flying out there if you have concern contact AGMA they will listen, and don't
make derogatory remarks about peoples reputations. I know this guy don't be a POS troll.

EmGo · Aug 13, 2020

1953chevB said:
I know this guy don't be a POS troll.

So do I, which is how I know he is an idiot. And AGMA licks donkey balls now, not worth talking to them about anything. They flushed themselves down the toilet a good ten years ago.

All he needs to know for this pair of gears is the mounting distance and the load he expects to transmit. Bevels don't have a pitch diameter, how can they ? The pitch cones vary in diameter from the inside to the outside of the face.

Peter S · Aug 13, 2020

I have some bevel gears made by Chiaravalli, an Italian company. Back when I was involved with this sort of thing, the Italians were hard to beat when it came to reasonably-priced transmission components, e.g. sprockets, gears etc.

Here is their website, but it seems you have to register to download their catalogs...very annoying.

BEVEL GEARS

I have attached a page from my old catalogue to give an example, they also make smaller gears than this. Please ignore the highlighted gears. Sorry, all metric dimensions.

Lester Bowman · Aug 13, 2020

I purchased from an Ebay seller 6 pairs... BOSTON L95Y MITER GEAR, 32DP, 24T, 3/16" B, 3/4" PITCH Diameter. I think they are somewhat close to approximating what I need.

I appreciate all the help and learned a bit as well. If the gears I purchased won't work I'll be back !

Thanks to all.. Lester.

1953chevB · Aug 13, 2020

Lester Bowman said:
I think with these firmer dimension's I have a better chance of finding what I need in an " off the shelf " gear which may suit the bill. Besides that I need twelve of them ( 6 pair ). Let me pursue this route first and we'll go from there.

This is just a fun project and there are no time restraints except death Thanks for the Crown Height comment. Helps to know what this is called.

good luck Lester , let me know if you get stuck

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