Smart & Brown 'Sabel'

Gandy · Dec 20, 2016

Hi to all forum members.

I have just joined and would like to share with you a recent
acquisition. In the early 60's my Dad bought a Smart & Brown 'Sabel' to help him when he worked on old cars. He paid £12! Then only 15yr old, it was on this lathe that I learned all sorts of turning skills. The lathe was sold in the early 70's and with it went many fond memories. My career went in the direction of electronics and my need for a lathe seldom, if ever arose. I have recently retired and have bought an old Jaguar to keep me out of mischief. My workshop is well equipped but lacked a lathe. Thinking the Jag just may need the use of one, I began to look around for something like the old Sabel.
I was surprised how the hobby market is dominated by Myford and how rare anything from Smart & brown was. After considerable searching I eventually found a well preserved example. It now has a new motor and pride of place in my workshop. It invokes many memories every time I look at it but only time will tell if it ever gets used in earnest.

It lacks a face plate and steady. If any members can advise me of a possible source for these, then I would be most grateful. Apologies for the sad rambling!

maynah · Dec 20, 2016

Welcome Gandy. What spindle does your lathe have?
Would love to see pictures of your S&B.

Limy Sami · Dec 20, 2016

Welcome aboard Gandy.

VERY nice lathe _ S&B's copy of the Southbend, and due to their cost against other machines of the same size - quite rare

From Tony Lathes http://www.lathes.co.uk/sabel/

Like the better-known and very successful* Boxford the 4.75" x 18" Smart & Brown "Sabel" (the name of the original S & B works in Biggleswade, Bedfordshire, England) was a copy of the South Bend* 9-inch "Workshop" lathe, though oddly instead of being located on a V-way, the back of the saddle ran on a flat.
In comparison with the original South Bend it was, being to traditional high-quality Smart & Brown standards, a much better job; the headstock was better guarded (somewhat along the lines of the contemporary South Bend "Light Ten" also from the early 1950s) together with a re-designed spindle assembly, larger bearings, a fractionally larger bore and the nose thread increased from 1.5" x 8 t.p.i. to 1.75" x 8 t.p.i

My bold italics, ........ Face plate that's an oddball nose, so keep searching Ebay or modify a Boxford faceplate - every one I've seen has plenty of meat on the boss, ........... as for steadies? .....keep looking (and be prepared to pay a small mint

) or brew your own.

Gandy · Dec 20, 2016

One inch i.d. but unsure about o.d.

Limy Sami · Dec 20, 2016

Nice looking lathe, re spindle thread ;- read and inwardly digest here http://www.lathes.co.uk/latheparts/page7.html

jhruska · Dec 20, 2016

Factory fresh?

Reorientation with a slight tweak.
John

Gandy · Dec 20, 2016

Many thanks

Clive603 · Dec 20, 2016

If your nose thread is 1.75" x 8 TPI I have a faceplate that should fit. Been in the "someone will want it one day" box for pushing 30 odd years after I nabbed it mid flight like a (very) overweight frisbee from Mr Don't Fit Now't, I'll throw it in the bin. There is a reason why frisbees aren't cast iron!

4 slots, 7 1/2" diameter, 1" of thread and 1/2" of register. Gawd knows what its worth. Could post after Christmas or if you are anywhere near me (East Sussex) you are welcome to pick it up.

Clive

Limy Sami · Dec 20, 2016

That sounds like a result to me, or as we Brits say ;- SORTED

sable · Dec 21, 2016

My first decent lathe was a Sabel ,still have it but it doesn't get much use now as I have three other S+B lathes as well as other makes ,the Sabel would be the last I would let go though.

Regarding the spindle nose ,the S+b model L (or at least earlier ones and most that come up for sale)have the same thread but the internal is different.

Marty Feldman · Dec 21, 2016

Welcome Gandy. Yes, that would qualify as "a well preserved example". Does it show any signs of wear? The expression over here, in the used car world, is Driven only on Sundays by a little old lady in Florida.
-Marty-

Gandy · Dec 21, 2016

My headstock seems to match ie: 1.75 dia, 0.8" thread @ 8tpi and 0.5 shoulder.
Please text me with price and location in Essex. I'm close to Luton Airport.
07970745241 - Ray

Gandy · Dec 21, 2016

Sorry, Clive, number is 07970745241,
Ray.

Gandy · Dec 21, 2016

Only real wear is in bronze nuts in the cross and compound slides.

Clive603 · Dec 21, 2016

sable said:
Regarding the spindle nose ,the S+b model L (or at least earlier ones and most that come up for sale)have the same thread but the internal is different.

Interesting. All three model L's that I've had dealings with had the largest 2.5" Ø by 8 TPI threaded nose. Done 6 or so backplates that size to date so I'm glad I made a dummy spindle end as a gauge for the first one. Turned out to be touch tight on the other 2 but when I'm mailing stuff I prefer it that way so the customer can scrape the register in to a real nice fit as it comes up on the shoulder. According to Tony the big spindle is the least common so my experience may be atypical but all three were supplied as chucking machines not collet ones which may account for it.

Actually this has all been bit serendipitous. Had a "Why the "beep-beep-beep" (yes I read Larry Niven) did you agree to take that on!" job lying about driving me nuts how to mount it and that faceplate was the perfect answer. Job was a Honda 170 mm headlamp rim to be opened out to take a 7" headlamp. Not stable enough to chuck up directly, nothing sensible to grab on and its not round to start with so a complete pain to set up on a rotary table to mill out after screwing to an intermediate plate. Three layers of insulation tape got it out to same diameter as that faceplate. A far too useful to throw away monster jubilee clip thing off a junked cos it didn't work chimney cowl off the house rebuild project pulled it central on the faceplate and 4 shallow U clips on the little inner flange held it nicely via the faceplate slots. Grabbed the outside of the inner flange in the three jaw on the Pratt & Whitney Model B and 10 minutes at 127 rpm and job done. Only a fortnight's procrastination and trying inadequate mounting schemes in odd moneys after desperate inspiration strikes! Pity the 2 speed contactor on the B decided to play silly boys half way through but nobody promised life would be easy.

Those shallow U clips were another really handy scrap bin intercept. Nominal size is 0.7" x 0.9" in 10 gauge steel with a 3/16" hole in the middle the two long sides have bent over ends about 0.2" proud of the main clip face. Excellent at grabbing thinnish stuff, with or without a rim with via suitable bolt or screw through the hole. Get a lot of use with wood screws and sacrificial ply, pdf or ex kitchen cabinet side plates on the drill for sheet metal jobs.

Clive

sable · Dec 22, 2016

Clive603 said:
Interesting. All three model L's that I've had dealings with had the largest 2.5" Ø by 8 TPI threaded nose. Done 6 or so backplates that size to date so I'm glad I made a dummy spindle end as a gauge for the first one. Turned out to be touch tight on the other 2 but when I'm mailing stuff I prefer it that way so the customer can scrape the register in to a real nice fit as it comes up on the shoulder. According to Tony the big spindle is the least common so my experience may be atypical but all three were supplied as chucking machines not collet ones which may account for it.

Actually this has all been bit serendipitous. Had a "Why the "beep-beep-beep" (yes I read Larry Niven) did you agree to take that on!" job lying about driving me nuts how to mount it and that faceplate was the perfect answer. Job was a Honda 170 mm headlamp rim to be opened out to take a 7" headlamp. Not stable enough to chuck up directly, nothing sensible to grab on and its not round to start with so a complete pain to set up on a rotary table to mill out after screwing to an intermediate plate. Three layers of insulation tape got it out to same diameter as that faceplate. A far too useful to throw away monster jubilee clip thing off a junked cos it didn't work chimney cowl off the house rebuild project pulled it central on the faceplate and 4 shallow U clips on the little inner flange held it nicely via the faceplate slots. Grabbed the outside of the inner flange in the three jaw on the Pratt & Whitney Model B and 10 minutes at 127 rpm and job done. Only a fortnight's procrastination and trying inadequate mounting schemes in odd moneys after desperate inspiration strikes! Pity the 2 speed contactor on the B decided to play silly boys half way through but nobody promised life would be easy.

Those shallow U clips were another really handy scrap bin intercept. Nominal size is 0.7" x 0.9" in 10 gauge steel with a 3/16" hole in the middle the two long sides have bent over ends about 0.2" proud of the main clip face. Excellent at grabbing thinnish stuff, with or without a rim with via suitable bolt or screw through the hole. Get a lot of use with wood screws and sacrificial ply, pdf or ex kitchen cabinet side plates on the drill for sheet metal jobs.

Clive

Did the "model L" machines have 5C inside? and were they the more modern square head type.

Regarding mounting odd shaped stuff ,a lump of wood has got me out of trouble a few times.

Johan 2018 · May 21, 2018

Greetings machinists, Im new to this forum and seek advice with the restoration of my s&b sabel lathe. It has a bit more wear on its ways than Im willing to work with, but just the outermost ones that the carriage is riding on, can be seen in red in one of the pics... My question is could i just scrape or grind the worn ones and carriage prisms to fit? they will end up lower than the tailstock and and spindle prism and flat ways but that shouldntmatter since tools are adjusted for height anyway ? thoughts on the above

kitno455 · May 21, 2018

Put it back together and use it. Saddle drop is only Cosine error, you'll be hard pressed to see it for most work.

allan

Smart & Brown 'Sabel'

Plastic

Stainless

Diamond

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Diamond

Titanium

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