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Starrett Gerstner machinist chest damaged in shipping (was ...bad day)

Blough

Aluminum
Joined
Aug 19, 2017
Location
Akron-Canton
Recently Inherited my Grandfather's Starrett/Gerstner Toolbox, which was in above average condition. Other than dust build up and the hardware oxidizing.
Since he was the one that hooked me on machinery; and motivated me to pursue mechanical engineering I decided to send it to Gerstner to be restored.
Took a few hours to make sure it was safe and well packed, Sent it out via UPS and waited to hear from them.

The email I got from them said "Gerstner Starrett Chest today for a restoration quote. In your previous e-mail, you mentioned the box is in 'OK Condition', but I think the chest might have been broken during shipping"

With attached pictures..

box.jpgbox2.jpg

Anyways how's your Monday?
 
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Did they give you a "ballpark" on restoration?

Doubtless they will restore it. I expect the restoration will cost a bit more than their first estimate.

The difference may be where you can put in a claim against the carrier.

Joe in NH
 
I should have also mentioned, I am from North Eastern Ohio, I was on the fence about making the 3.5 hour drive (one way) to just drop it off but ended up deciding against it. Which is half the reason I am so surprised that this much damage happened even though it was a same state delivery.
 
I figure that shippers will always damage my stuff, no matter what it is or how well it's packed.

The gorillas at UPS are the worst - I suspect potential new hires must demonstrate the ability to break an anvil inside of 30 seconds before a job offer is forthcoming.

I'm not joking - I had someone ship me a small Hay-Budden (60# or so) and it arrived, via UPS, in four (yes, 4) pieces. Never could collect on the insurance.
 
How did you carry out "packaging well"?

My livelihood depends on 65-80 lb packages making it to their destinations all over the world in one perfect piece. Packaging things to make them bomb proof is a little bit of an art.

If your packaging was not adequate for UPS to throw it off the roof of a 2 story building and drive over it then it's not going to be their fault in their opinion.
 
How did you carry out "packaging well"?

My livelihood depends on 65-80 lb packages making it to their destinations all over the world in one perfect piece. Packaging things to make them bomb proof is a little bit of an art.

If your packaging was not adequate for UPS to throw it off the roof of a 2 story building and drive over it then it's not going to be their fault in their opinion.

Agreed. When I ship, the boxes are nearly crates and there are plenty of wood screws and 2x4's involved.
 
How did you carry out "packaging well"?

My livelihood depends on 65-80 lb packages making it to their destinations all over the world in one perfect piece. Packaging things to make them bomb proof is a little bit of an art.

If your packaging was not adequate for UPS to throw it off the roof of a 2 story building and drive over it then it's not going to be their fault in their opinion.

I have to agree on this one, a person shipping anything needs to know, not think something might happen. I always figure the person handling my packages have no concern other than their job, delivery to the destination. The examples I have to offer about catastrophes could fill volumes too many to go into here but it assures me destruction is not their problem.
Dan
 
Univac learned the hard way in the 70's to add tip/tell indicators to their Uniscope 100 terminal boxes. Shippers were known to take these 80lbs plus packing materials/box and roll them end over end. The tip/tells told the story so they would get the insurance claim paid out.

Sad to see the destruction on that tool box.
 
Agreed on you have to pack it to bomb proof levels. All the carriers today use high speed conveyors (70 mph), as it flies down the sorting line and gets shifted onto the truck heading to Toledo, it is done with a baseball bat. At end of conveyor it can fly onto a pile of boxes, or a concrete floor. Ever watch the guys loading/unloading trucks? They grab and throw, ain't nobody catching!

For that item, I would have used no less than 4" of high density foam insulation for padding.
 
I know an ebayer who ships all his packages via USPS, his experience before using USPS exclusively was the near impossibility of getting UPS/FedEx to pay out on insurance claims, he said rarely a problem with USPS.
 
That's a downer any day of the week:(

Not to be a Monday morning quarterback, but we ship small and large stuff every day. Truck freight seems to be less hazardous as there's a 90% chance the item will remain upright. When we ship stuff parcel, we expect it to "roll" from one point to the next. I've seen lots of bulletproof crates with the contents destroyed because it wasn't secured well inside.

Best results we've had with large delicate pieces and 50# + items is to line the entire inside of the box with plywood (actual CDX. I have no use for chip board for any shipping jobs) have a minimum of 3" extra space on each side of the item, have it bolted or chocked and strapped to one side, and then stuff every crack and crevice in the box with shredded cardboard. I'm not fond of foam as it tends to crumble and flatten in transit, while cardboard you can pack densely and it'll stay that way. We also shrink wrap anything that could come loose so it stays with the item instead of falling out of a hole in the box and ending up who knows where. Lastly, steel banding the exterior of the box is a good way to suck everything tight together.

Even still, we loose the lottery every now and then.

Coming from the other side, it's a pain when someone sends us a machine for a simple repair, and we end up having to triple the quote doing shipping damage repairs. I'm happy to have business, it just sucks to be put further behind schedule due to someone else's stupidity. Then the blaim-game starts. The shipper won't claim responsibility, the customer might (but we get treated like we're screwing them), and sometimes we end up eating it just to keep everyone happy:ack2:.
 
UPS = United Parcel Smashers

I once shipped a small power hacksaw out to a fellow on the West Coast who purchased it from me. I built a really rugged crate out of plywood and 4/4's rough sawn pine. Joints were screwed & glued. Crossmembers were carriage bolted to the inside bottom, glued to 1/2" plywood bottom. The saw was carriage bolted to the crossmembers and bottom plywood, carriage bolts running thru the bottom plywood and cross members. I put a block of wood on the saw bed, and brought the saw frame & guide bar down onto it. I then lag screwed a 2 x 4 cross member above the saw frame/guide so the saw frame could not move up and down. I reinforced the cover (1/2" plywood) with 4/4's rough sawn pine battens and had an inside frame of 2 x 3's.

The fellow who bought the saw sent me photos of the result of UPS. The saw was smashed to bits. Evidently, the crate had been dropped from some height in an inverted position, because all (4) of the carriage bolts holding the saw to the crate bottom had pulled thru the plywood and 4/4's pine. The 2 x 4 cross member above the saw frame/guide was splintered. The crate looked like it had been rolled on rocks with every edge and corner splintered and rounded.

The fellow who bought the saw refused delivery. UPS notified me they were getting the saw and shipping it back to me. I notified UPS that I would be refusing delivery as well. UPS shipped the saw back East, and it arrived in the Kingston, NY terminal. I went to see the remains of the saw and was astonished at the destruction.

A kindly lady supervisor there filled me in on how to proceed. I filed a claim with UPS. UPS denied the claim, with their contention being that the saw was improperly packed for shipment and should have been in a CORRUGATED CARDBOARD BOX, and gave the tensile strength of the cardboard. I tried to argue that, and got nowhere. The next step was to track down the head geek at UPS. This was not so easy as it sounds as no one at UPS was at liberty to divulge the address of their corporate headquarters, let alone the name and title of the head geek. I finally managed to get that information from some financial website. My next step was to send that CEO or whatever he was, a registered letter, return receipt requested. In the letter, I set forth what had happened, refuted the ridiculous defense that UPS had as to why the saw had been smashed, and then gave the SOB 10 business days to respond, telling him it was my intention to hail him and UPS into small claims court in Kingston, NY. I went on to say that if he had any sense, he'd settle for the value of the saw as it was going to cost UPS a good bit more to get an attorney with a NYS License to answer the suit. Since UPS is a corporation, they would have to have sent either a member of their board (or the CEO whom I had named specifically), or a duly authorized attorney admitted to the bar in the state where the suit was filed. Needless to say, this letter seemingly went un-answered, though some flunky did sign for it, acknoweldging receipt.

The nice supervisor at the Kingston terminal told me thus: since I had packed the saw in my own crate, UPS was not liable for damages. Had UPS done the packing, they would have been liable for the whole nut. Take this statement under advisement as these corporations are slimier than eels at wriggling out of paying claims against them.

Meanwhile, the saw was sitting in the Kingston terminal and I was still trying to untangle the matter. The seller claimed he could use the parts to make new castings or something on that order. Good luck with that, the saw castings were grenaded into fragments. The supervisor told me to call the UPS regional hub down in Secaucus, NJ. I did that and got thru to a kindly person. She said UPS was authorized to pay a maximum of 200 bucks on this sort of claim, which she authorized. Now there was the matter of getting the saw back to the West Coast since the buyer wanted it, busted beyond any practical repair though it was. The person in the Secaucus hub authorized the shipment back to the buyer. We shovelled in bubble wrap, foam peanuts and anything else that seemed handy and then put the cover on the box with a few hundred feet of UPS' tape at the Kingston terminal. The busted remains of the hacksaw were routed back to the purchaser. UPS ate that freight tab.

I asked the supervisor at the Kingston terminal how the crate got to looking like it had been rolled end for end along jagged rocks, and how the saw was subjected to such an impact that it pulled the bolts thru the bottom and splintered the cross piece. She said that UPS handles their packages and boxes automatically, and the crate was likely dropped off the discharge end of a high conveyor. She guessed that there was nothing below to soften the landing, no other hapless customers' boxes. She said the drop could have been 15 feet or thereabouts. As for the appearance of being rolled end-for-end, she said the crate was loaded into an intermodal semi trailer for the run to the west coast. These intermodal trailers are then put onto special flat cars and go by rail. I asked her if the car had been "humped" (a shoving process done in the marshalling yards) and then allowed to roll down the hump track and slam into the rest of the train to couple up. She laughed and said her grandfather had been a railroader and knew all about that sort of thing. She confirmed that the UPS intermodal trains do not get any special handling orders and are subjected to the slam-bang of coupling and whatever other rough handling happens in the yards or en route.

Meanwhile, it seemed like I had made a friend in the Secaucus hub. She authorized a SECOND damage settlement for another 200 bucks for damage which occurred to the saw on the return trip (as busted cast iron from the first trip). The result was I shook down 400 bucks from UPS, and considering I had sold the saw for 50 bucks plus shipping, the buyer made out nicely. I sent the 400 bucks to him.

Meanwhile, whenever I ship anything via UPS, I bring it to their UPS store and let them pack and ship it. I insure it and let them own things. So far, whatever I have had them ship seems to get there OK. I did learn from the UPS supervisor at their Kingston terminal that the way to pack something halfway delicate or valuable is to pack it well in one carton (bubble wrap, foam, etc). This carton is taped up and then placed in a larger carton with maybe 2" or more of space on all sides. The inner carton is then packed in bubble wrap, foam peanuts, or whatever UPS seems to think is needed for a crush-zone or energy absorption.

On a funnier note, my mother, then age 98, had painted a picture which she wanted to send to her grandson (my nephew) in Wyoming. I was visiting Mom. Mom has an ancient gunboat of a Lincoln. Mom and I were out and about in her gunboat. She directed me to get some carton material for the picture. I went to Ace Hardware and was going to buy a carton or two, and Mom started to raise hell about the price. She told me to go check the dumpsters. No cardboard as they bale it up. We drove on some other errands, and Mom spotted a recycling dumpster and directed me to park and see if there was salvageable cardboard. I found some boxes and was dumpster diving to pull them out when a business owner came out hollering that she had called the cops, saying she was sick and tired of people dumping their shit in her dumpster. Mom started to give the lady hell, and I was trying to jam the large cartons into the back seat or trunk of her gunboat.

We got to her condo, and I spent over an hour cutting the cartons and taping together a new shipping box for the painting. I kept telling Mom about the hacksaw and United Parcel Smashers, and she kept carrying on about the cost of shipping and cost of cartons. Mom went thru the Great Depression and grew up very poor, so she tends to squeeze her nickels until the buffalo croaks. We got the carton made, picture in it, and off we went to the UPS store. The guys there had a minor fit seeing the home-made carton with miles of taping. They told Mom they could not insure the shipment because of the carton and the fact we'd packed it ourselves- which is what I'd been telling Mom for two days prior. They accepted the shipment and figured the cost. Mom asked them how much it would have cost if they (UPS) had packed the painting and insured it. It was maybe 15 or 20 bucks more. I told Mom this would have been money well spent as I did not come from NY State to visit my aged mother only to be dumpster diving and being threatened with arrest for "theft of services". I told Mom to find a good bail bondsman and keep the name on her refrigerator door for future visits, and told her I was done impersonating a racoon as far as diving headlong into dumpsters.

Interestingly, that painting arrived safe and sound. Go figure.
 
I know an ebayer who ships all his packages via USPS, his experience before using USPS exclusively was the near impossibility of getting UPS/FedEx to pay out on insurance claims, he said rarely a problem with USPS.

My experience as well. I learned the hard way.UPS will automatically claim insufficient packaging. The only way around that it to have your item packaged for you at a UPS store.
 
Screws wood and glue don't make it UPS proof.

My rules for packaging are-

1) Absolutely no packing peanuts under any circumstances.

2) No air space. Fill voids solid with cardboard, foam or the sealed air/bubblewrap in some situations.

3) The package must have some crush to it. If you make it solid wood it's really easy to break it if it falls 10 feet onto concrete or they drive over it.

4) re-inforce the box so it cannot blow out. If they do their worst the box will not open in any situation unless they cut it open with a box cutter. I use fiberglass tape for this.

5) Think about how you tape/re-inforce the box. Don't just tape the seams. I tape critical packages with bands 15-25% in from the edges. This makes it impossible to lose the parts if they tear the corners out of the box.

6) bolt, strap or tape the pieces into one solid assembly if there are more than one part inside.

10's of thousands of packages shipped in the last decade and not a single claim since I "re-invented" the way I package stuff and came up with these rules.
 
How did you carry out "packaging well"?

My livelihood depends on 65-80 lb packages making it to their destinations all over the world in one perfect piece. Packaging things to make them bomb proof is a little bit of an art.

If your packaging was not adequate for UPS to throw it off the roof of a 2 story building and drive over it then it's not going to be their fault in their opinion.

Having been in packaging meetings with UPS, I can vouch for that being very nearly literally true.

Carwood's advice is right on.
 
I've had two problems with UPS. The first was a 4 x 6 saw delivered to the house. The box looked good until I opened it. The frame was broke in half. Called Harbor Freight...another one arrived...broken one taken...all was good. The second item was an insurance claim. They paid the items value including the shipping cost. No hassles. Boy do I feel fortunate after reading this thread. I also had an insurance claim with the Post Office. They were strict on value data. Paid the claim but did not reimburse the shipping cost. Overall I am lucky for not have more problems. Buying on eBay, etc., shippers are very lazy about packaging. Boxes arrive crushed due to lack of filling, items are loose in the box which pokes holes through the card board. Scary...
 
We have shipped international back in ebay days and even carried a 400 day clock in checked baggage along with a stand mixer. (Swap meet buys while on trip)

All made it fine.

Last test of packing is a shake test.

Shake box had and if any movement felt then not packed right.

Box must be strong enough for weight and if fragile double box.

Remember that fragile was the name of an ancient game similar to football or soccer where the ball is kicked and tossed...maybe rugby.

It was pronounced fra-gil-lee...

Cannot remember which country it was from but many of the folks from that part of the world were in transportation and have stayed in that line of work via shipping careers.


A day late...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk
 
I guess I am just lucky that they have yet to bust one of the Lathe Spanners I sell on the forum but, it would be interesting to see what the packages look like on arrival!

Walter
 








 
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