Stuck handwheel collet close
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  1. #1
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    Default Stuck handwheel collet close

    Picked up an addition lathe. 5C collet in the spindle and the handwheel closer won't budge. I've got the spindle locked and tried a strap wrench on the handwheel, but no success it just slips on the smooth convex surface. Don't want to destroy the handwheel with gorilla attempts with a pipe wrench. Any suggestions?

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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie_obe View Post
    Picked up an addition lathe. 5C collet in the spindle and the handwheel closer won't budge. I've got the spindle locked and tried a strap wrench on the handwheel, but no success it just slips on the smooth convex surface. Don't want to destroy the handwheel with gorilla attempts with a pipe wrench. Any suggestions?
    What kind of lathe is this? And photos would be of help here.

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    Wade #73 with lever collet closer. Can't post a picture from my present location.

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    If it is supposed to turn, and there are no keys holding something that can break, you might use a strip of abrasive paper.

    Bolt-together a couple of wood V blocks and put a big wrench on it. *But you don't want to break a gear it something.

    C clamp a couple of wood 2x4 x 16" - 18" long across the face and rear might work.

    May need to put a holding device on the spindle.
    RE: Wade #73 with lever collet closer. where do you have the strap wrench? likely the nose is in the spindle taper so that end cant turn.

    A nose handwheel kind you can turn, sometimes with two C clamps and a bar...if the abrasive paper does not work-

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    Strap wrench is on the collet close handwheel, not a lot of surface area for the strap to grab.

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    One might dermal a couple of holes in a strap wrench strap and bolt and washer a strip on abrasive cloth.

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    Here are a few of pictures of my Wade 73.
    You say it's a 5C collet. Could it be the drawbar is 8W collet threads?
    I think the only difference is the Wade uses buttress threads.

    ( I usually compose my pictures but I was in a hurry so you see my workbench as is.
    I'm moving soon and I have everything pulled out sorting what I don't need/want.)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails img_6534.jpg   img_6535.jpg   img_6536.jpg   img_6537.jpg  

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    Essentially the same, this is probably not a genuine Wade closer. It differs from the one on my #94 and the images of yours. The collet in the spindle is left from the last job this lathe ran before the company shut down. Who knows how long that was.

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    If a normal strap wrench likely you are/may not getting the pressure you need, you should need to get your full weight against the wrench. With getting that and still a fail then you may have to resort to other methods,

    You might get a little solvent in the close area of the thread. What size is that stuck collet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    If a normal strap wrench likely you are/may not getting the pressure you need, you should need to get your full weight against the wrench. With getting that and still a fail then you may have to resort to other methods,

    You might get a little solvent in the close area of the thread. What size is that stuck collet?
    It's a 3/16" Hardinge collet, in addition to doing no harm to the closer or spindle, I'd like to avoid damaging the collet as well.

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    Two things I would suggest.

    Generously spray penetrating oil (especially foaming type) into the spindle so some will hopefully wick into the threads.

    Get some grippy rubber and cut semicircles in two wood blocks (like a split shaft collar) with bolts or threaded rod to tighten the two blocks together. Using the rubber for padding, tighten the blocks onto the handwheel and then try tapping on the blocks in the direction that should loosen. If a previous user cross-threaded the closer onto the collet the threads are going to be buggered no matter what you do, but if it's just dry/tight the oil may help and the rubber padded blocks shouldn't damage the handwheel.

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    Somewhat like what Scott said
    You might cut a 2x8 into a hex shape with the flats the size of the wheel to be turned.
    make 6 flat board 2 x 4" x 5 double wood screwed to the hex and to be a close fit to the handwheel.
    The flat boards having sandpaper Cloth screwed and glued to the inside to set on the handwheel diameter.

    Put your strap wrench around this and give a two-hand pull.

    A cut-up belt sander belt may be the stronger abrasive paper to use, 80gritmight be good.
    Might put on a couple of C clamps to hold it in place,

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    I am not familiar with Wade lever collet closers, but it was said that this Wade lathe has a non-original collet closer. So I will mention that Hardinge and Royal lever collet closers have a little steel spring-loaded adjuster locking lever on the collar that covers the closing cams. You have to release the little lever before you can unscrew the draw tube from the collet threads. If you force the knob on the tube without releasing the adjuster lock, you will break something.

    I took a couple pictures of the little levers in the disengaged position to help explain. The first picture is a Royal and the second is a Hardinge. I pulled the tube assemblies back to expose the serrated discs that the little lever engages to lock in the adjustment.

    Larry

    dsc02869.jpg dsc02870.jpg
    Last edited by L Vanice; 07-28-2021 at 07:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by L Vanice View Post
    I am not familiar with Wade lever collet closers, but it was said that this Wade lathe has a non-original collet closer. So I will mention that Hardinge and Royal lever collet closers have a little steel spring-loaded adjuster locking lever on the collar that covers the closing cams. You have to release the little lever before you can unscrew the draw tube from the collet threads. If you force the knob on the tube without releasing the adjuster lock, you will break something.

    Larry

    A schematic on one royal
    http://manuals.chudov.com/Clausing/C...-Parts-PDF.pdf

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    Hardinge tear down..might show what larry is talking about (?)

    That lever with knocking out the pin (?) *At 15:41 in the video.
    Hardinge Lathe Collet Closer Explored/Repair - YouTube

    Wow, cranking too hard may have made a mess of it.

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    Can the handwheel be removed and the tube pushed through?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank R View Post
    Can the handwheel be removed and the tube pushed through?
    That's being considered, the closer fork and related hardware may turn out to be in the way of fasteners.

    Haven't given up on the direct approach if I can get enough grip without crushing the handwheel.
    This closer does not appear to me to be of the Royal design. Who else might have made it? I don't think Wade produced so many turret lathes that they wouldn't have bought a closer if one was available. It's slightly different than that of the #94/98.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie_obe View Post
    That's being considered, the closer fork and related hardware may turn out to be in the way of fasteners.

    Haven't given up on the direct approach if I can get enough grip without crushing the handwheel.
    This closer does not appear to me to be of the Royal design. Who else might have made it? I don't think Wade produced so many turret lathes that they wouldn't have bought a closer if one was available. It's slightly different than that of the #94/98.
    One closer I have, there's a little push button, along the same axis as the spindle.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails colletcloserbutton.jpg  

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    How expensive is a replacement collet?

    Boring out the collet would be a better option than damaging the mechanism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank R View Post
    How expensive is a replacement collet?

    Boring out the collet would be a better option than damaging the mechanism.
    List price from Hardinge $95.
    This isn't an emergency, I don't have the luxury to deal with the issue 8 hours a day either, soliciting ideas.....


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