T.S. & A.J. Kirkwood metal planer

MFaris · Jan 16, 2019

Hello everyone,

I'm looking for info on TS & AJ Kirkwood Co. of Chicago, metal planers. I bought one last year that will need to have some parts fabricated in order to restore it to line shaft operation; as of now I haven't been able to find another one to get pictures and dimensions from.

Any help would be great! I'll try to post some pictures tomorrow...

enginebill · Jan 17, 2019

A photo or two would help. Kirkwood could have been a dealer not a maker.
A quick search on Google books shows that they were machinery dealers and the name was T.S. & A.J. Kirkwood from 1875 to 1885.

MFaris · Jan 17, 2019

Here are some photos. The first three were taken prior to me buying it, and the last two are after it was taken apart for removal. I can't give any measurements as it is in storage a long ways away from me and I don't have them written down.
Any insight would be great!

enginebill · Jan 20, 2019

Here is what I found on the company.
History of Chicago - Alfred Theodore Andreas - Google Books

Jim Christie · Jan 20, 2019

There was another old planer in B.C. that was featured in this thread from a few years ago that I thought looked similar so I looked to see if it was the same one .
I was able to find the link.
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...estined-scrapped-268541/?highlight=Planer+B.C.
Not the same one but similar.
I don’t know what be came of it but maybe some parts could be adapted to yours or used as a guide to make others if the machine is still around and not too far away from you to visit and compare notes.
Regards,
Jim

Hit Miss Engine · Jan 20, 2019

There is a lot of similarities on that Planer to my Ames Chicopee Mass Screw Drive Planer .. I will post some pics when I get a chance...

esbutler · Jan 20, 2019

The T-slots coming in from the long edges of the platen are unusual.

MFaris: There is a pair of vertical tabs in the center of the ends of the platen. The ones in the front are obscured by a piece of plywood and the ones in the rear by a sheet metal pan. Do you know what they are for? Do they go down to support the rack or...?

Hit Miss Engine · Jan 20, 2019

Possibly an Ames?

Hit Miss Engine · Jan 20, 2019

Keep in mind that this is a small Ames planer... but the uprights and other aspects are very similar...even my clapper box looks identical.

MFaris · Jan 20, 2019

Thanks for the replies!

The planer in the old thread is a bit of a mystery to me, one of these days I'm going to see if I can locate it; if it still exists. I currently know of three planers in BC: the one from the old thread in Penticton, one in a Kamloops garage, and mine near Nelson. I'm sure there are more but I haven't seen them.

Regarding the tabs, I can't answer that question right now. But I'll talk to my buddy who's storing it and get back to you. I suspect this planer was originally used in the Trail, BC smelter or one of the big mines near Rossland BC.

MFaris · Jan 20, 2019

Thanks for the pics Hit n Miss, I think you're onto something! Your planer really does look like a relative of mine! Can you grab some detail pictures of the pulleys and belt shifter?

Hit Miss Engine · Jan 20, 2019

Yes... if I get a chance after dinner I will run back out to the shop ... the last trip I nearly froze to death.

Robert Lang · Jan 21, 2019

Hit Miss Engine said:
Keep in mind that this is a small Ames planer... but the uprights and other aspects are very similar...even my clapper box looks identical.

The clapper box does not look identical, not even close.

I don't know whose make this planer is.
It took some time to go thru all of my literature and info but I could not find anything like this planers style.
The table design is unusual, more like British design but I think this planer is American or at least North American.
The brackets at the end of the table most likely support the gear rack as noted by esbutler.
This is an early planer. I am thinking 1860's or maybe late 1850's.
Early style clapper for tilting. Very early New Haven's had this style.
Early style for tilting/swiveling the head. Dovetail way on the top of the cross rail.
Notice the four bolts that hold the cross piece on between the uprights. You need a pin to go thru the hole to loosen and tighten them.
The design of the cross rail elevating screws, gears and bearings are just like the Ames, but a few others used this style, such as Phoenix Iron Works.
The only planer I could find that came close was Matteawan. Illustration below.
Also my Phoenix planer circa 1856 showing the tool head and cross rail elevating parts.

Rob

Hit Miss Engine · Jan 21, 2019

Rob,
You are correct ...poor choice of words on my part. The shape and design is similar to me with the obvious exception of the tool mount. I took a few more pics to study.

enginebill · Jan 21, 2019

Hit Miss Engine said:
Rob,
You are correct ...poor choice of words on my part. The shape and design is similar to me with the obvious exception of the tool mount. I took a few more pics to study.

Is the resolution on your camera set low? All of your pictures come out small. If you put the pics on your computer and then hit the edit feature then rotate the pictures right side up, even if they are right side up on your screen. Then hit save, your pictures will then be right way up.

Hit Miss Engine · Jan 21, 2019

enginebill said:
Is the resolution on your camera set low? All of your pictures come out small. If you put the pics on your computer and then hit the edit feature then rotate the pictures right side up, even if they are right side up on your screen. Then hit save, your pictures will then be right way up.

Mr Bill,
Im not certain what is happening? I do most of my loading of pictures directly off of my phone... My last phone seemed to take a picture and load it with no problem. This new phone I got spins pictures sideways upside down and inside out, makes them small and blurry..I need to figure it out but so far I'm not sure what Im doing wrong.

esbutler · Jan 21, 2019

This one seems to bear some similarities. Britannia of Colchester, England. This from Tony's site. There are others on there as well.

Britannia Shapers, Milling Machines and Planers

Robert Lang · Jan 21, 2019

Hit Miss Engine said:
The shape and design is similar to me with the obvious exception of the tool mount.

Not similar at all. It's all about the detail.
Yours has a raised pad where the tool post is.
Yours has little bolted on bearing caps, that stick out, for the pin.
Above the pin your clapper is straight sided.

As for the picture size, this site does scale down pictures.
I don't like cell phone cameras. You see this all the time. Too small and pictures upside down or on their side.
You see the pictures of my Phoenix planer I just took with my camera.
I did an experiment. I took the pictures at two different resolutions.
570KB 1600 x 1200 and 2.15MB 3264 x 2448. This site scaled them down to the same size.

Rob

MFaris · Jan 21, 2019

Wow this is great, thank you all so much for the educated discussion! I'm very interested about the possible 1850s-1860s build date, could it be possible Kirkwood was selling used planers with their tag in the 1870s?

enginebill · Jan 22, 2019

It is possible that it was a used machine or it could have been a new machine built by someone who used old designs. I have seen machines that looked to be from the 1860's that were built into the 1890's.

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