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Thread Type for Set Screw on Armstrong Tool Holder?

11echo

Aluminum
Joined
Feb 11, 2002
Location
Bakersfield, Calif
I have an old Monarch model "A" lathe which has the lantern tool post. So I've been collecting and using old Williams and Armstrong tool holders. Most of these holders have the square head set screw for the HHS tool bits, and on acouple of them the square head is more round. I thought they'd be 1/2" UNC thread, but after getting a couple, they don't fit! So I tried 12mm set screws and they don't fit! ...Both the ASME and metric stuff are close, but no cigar!
SO now I'm think it's something semi-exotic ...say witworth thread or something like that. Been checking with google and get nothing (yet). Can anybody save my sanity and tell me for sure? Not so much interested in size, but TYPE of thread is my demon! ...THX! Mark

 
Yes, companies go away, but many did business in that way, and we are left with the inconvenience caused by their policies. Sort of like getting your Pratt & Whitney (machine tool, not aero engine) jig bore worked on - you called the factory and a service engineer appeared at the local train station - but they are gone, too.
 
Of course a complete tool holder is not out of reach. Frequently seen on Ebay.

And - you may be able to do a helicoil repair and bring this into modern conformance.

I have a similar problem with a boring bar holder which is missing its screw. This one will take a bolt & nut to substitute for the original screw.

Others seem to have hurdled the problem similarly.

images


Joe in NH
 
“Called the factory”?
More like telegraph, using factory specific code words to minimize costs.

Not sure if the tech was willing to take the last train to Clarksville.

Make sure to meet them at the station.
 
I tough you have a lathe with screw-cutting capabilities...
I'd also suggest you invest in a cheap thread pitch gage and a set of thread wires and you're in business for replicating perfectly almost any thread.

Paolo
 
Maybe I'm missing something here but this is 2018. There are so many good quick change toolposts available
today that I can't see why anyone would want to mess around with an Armstrong setup--I haven't used one in
probably 25 years...
 
Simple, a proprietary thread - so you buy set screws from them - not someone else

I think the 1/2 screws are 1/2-14

They weren't always so "proprietary", though. Used to be LOTS more choices before they were bypassed and left to wither as majority choices took the high-volume seats of a fast-growing world. Early 1950's Pittsburgh, PA still had an old-line supplier where the array of black-oxide fasteners in wooden bins if lined end-to-end could easily stretch 200 linear yards, and about five high. "Order pickers", men in their 60's - some older - could amble directly to anything Dad asked for, too.

Not JUST "memory", though they had a bit of fun and great deal more "free advertising" letting you THINK so and go off and brag of seeing it. The treacherous old buggers had cheated. The whole shebang was systematically ORGANIZED to a fare-thee-well, y'see!

Long gone, of course. Primary supplier had been re-tooled in a New York Minute, early days of War Two, to 37 mm "Oldsmobile" cannons. Moved-on after the war off the back of all those new L&S lathes, surplus, never returned to black bolts. Neither had the plant manager. Phd Registered Professional Metallurgist and a local Pittsburgh legend at it by the time I met him as a green kid.

Meanwhile, growing adoption of "Point-Of-Sale" systems and bean-counters insisting on "inventory turns" arrived.

Nothing may be allowed to just sit, consume shelf space, tie up working capital, and wait more than a few WEEKS now, any more than bread, fresh veg, or packaged meats. Slow-movers get tossed onto "clearance sale", not restocked. See any "Big Box" or Harbor Freight and their flyers and internet blitzing. Whatever doesn't sell well soon ceases to exist at all. Consumers have voted, and merciful we are seldom. Progress. Can't afford it any other way. Just .. Deal With That.

Not the first Pilgrim in need of these ones, though. A few folks in the "hard to find" and "antique fastener" biz still make these and many more "orphans", brand-new. Just no longer in great bins. Nor "cheap", of course! Big world. Lots of niche-markets still profitable for someone to serve.

Google may need a three or four level-down dig-dig, but can find them or near-enough to shorten and shape-tip. Orphan or even custom taps and dies still exist as well.

Personally? I'd just aside the cripple and go scarf up a few more complete toolholders. Not as if they are in such great demand as armies are fighting to the death to control the last stash of. That "merciless consumer" thing, yah?

Mind, they CAN make far more effective doorstops than 3-jaw chucks once a body moves up to decent 4-ways. Seriously. Try one and see. Industrial steel door stopped by an Armstrong-Williams LH or RH laid flat and just so? Bugger ain't goin' NOWHERE! Those were FORGED, and of damned good steel. Forget it's there? Bend the dang door and sprain yer arm before it moves. DAMHIKT!

:D
 
Yup, it's an odd thread pitch, easily made... HOWEVER. Those original screws are hard as hell so they don't deform when cranking down on a HSS tool. I have a few screwed up ones, I just replaced the entire holder. You can get even the big ones for nearly nothing, so it's really not worth repairing unless it is a really special piece like a nice threading tool, knurling tool, etc...

As for why anybody would still use these holders, I still use them for my 1918 L&S because they work great and I have a HUGE stash of them, 80% of which I got for free. You just have to think when using them, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with the lantern post and Armstrong holders.
 
QT Mike C: [but there is absolutely nothing wrong with the lantern post and Armstrong holders]
Able to swing the bit quickly for different uses makes a lantern often best for Turn/face/nick center/bevel edge all with the same bit and a two second swing.

And for turn and thread (or other) the quick change to a fixed location is best.
So good place for using each kind..
 
QT Mike C: [but there is absolutely nothing wrong with the lantern post and Armstrong holders]
Able to swing the bit quickly for different uses makes a lantern often best for Turn/face/nick center/bevel edge all with the same bit and a two second swing.

And for turn and thread (or other) the quick change to a fixed location is best.
So good place for using each kind..

Nobody ... should limit a lathe to but ONE kind of toolpost.

Nor even just three!

:)
 
Maybe I'm missing something here but this is 2018. There are so many good quick change toolposts available
today that I can't see why anyone would want to mess around with an Armstrong setup--I haven't used one in
probably 25 years...

I'd probably just run to whoring, I had a job that boring.

Didn't though. Healthier, cheaper, more profitable to just change careers and employers more often. Socks and undershorts as well, FWIW.

:D
 
I once had a Monarch like yours and used the old lantern tool post as well.. I found the same thing in the tool holders made by Armstrong...I think I had one or two that someone had used a socket head set screw in place of the locking screw but the fit was not ideal...As mentioned previously, just look in Ebay and find some complete forged holders...At one time, I was able to buy them for almost nothing brand new with tool blank and wrench in the box with instructions even, but with ebay nowadays, they have probably gone out of site like everything else in there.. Ramsay 1:)
 
with ebay nowadays, they have probably gone out

.. off the back of blown-up fotos to yappies as think "Hey! steampunk"!

"I can make cawfee table legs outta those!"

Yah welll. About enough altitude above ground level to suit their intellect and even keep the sun, rain, and "weed" ashes off their taste..

.. but the toolholders are gone, either way....
 








 
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