Treadle Lathe Identification

I recently purchased this treadle lathe and I can't find any manufacturer's mark. Since the threading plaque is in German, I assume that it's made somewhere in Germany. But I'd like to know by who, and when. Can anyone help? I'd also like to know if anyone can explain for me the 2 rectangular frames, 1 of which attaches to the saddle , and the other one that attaches to the ways. Many thanks in advance.

Johann Weisser as a guess, it is fairly late model, but either non-screw cutting or pre quick change gearbox era.

technocrat said:

Johann Weisser as a guess, it is fairly late model, but either non-screw cutting or pre quick change gearbox era.

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The threading chart for English (inch) and metric threads shows the 127 tooth gear is used to cut metric threads. So it cuts threads and the leadscrew has an inch thread. I would guess that the feed screws also have inch threads, but the owner did not say. Looks like a nice old machine.

Some American lathes were sold with a choice of change gears or quick change until late in the 20th century. It affected the price, of course, so it was to help sell machines to less affluent customers.

Tony has pictures of old J G Weisser lathes with rectangular opening steady rests that hold inserts, but the inserts do not seem to be in the pictures. Perhaps the inserts look like steam engine connecting rod brasses.
J.G.Weisser Lathes

Larry

That is an impressive counterweight on the flywheel !

Tom A said:

That is an impressive counterweight on the flywheel !

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I hope the crank/connecting rod to the treadle is made so if you inadvertently get your toe under the treadle, you don't break your toe.

Joe in NH

Don't know a thing about these, but it's really fantastic. I notice there are no oilers on the headstock bearings. Could it be rolling bearings, or just a hidden wick somewhere? I know I don't have the leg power to keep a thing like that going for very long!

I'm Wondering if the Steady rest may also have used some form of hardwood blocking or packing depending on the job at hand as a bearing block .
Perhaps something like Lignum Vitae that was sometimes used used on ships propeller shafts .\
Lignum vitae - Wikipedia
You can see a similar type of steady rest in a lathe in the pictures below .
I presume it is being used to steady the centre of the long forged rods with the offset links on the floor near the lathe while the ends were being turned .
I posted this picture in this thread a long time ago but managed to rotate it this time
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...on-orchar-112792/index2.html?highlight=Orchar

Conrad Hoffman said:

Don't know a thing about these, but it's really fantastic. I notice there are no oilers on the headstock bearings. Could it be rolling bearings, or just a hidden wick somewhere? I know I don't have the leg power to keep a thing like that going for very long!

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I went and had a look at the lubrication provisions. The spindle and lead screw all have open holes, except for the drive end of the lead screw. It has a little cover that can be rotated to expose and close the oil hole. Perhaps the spindle also had these at one stage. The screws for the cross slide and the top slide (compound) are open holes and would not have been fitted with these covers.
As for leg power, they say you learn how to sharpen your tools really well!

Jim Christie said:

I posted this picture in this thread a long time ago but managed to rotate it this time
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...on-orchar-112792/index2.html?highlight=Orchar

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I think it's interesting, that it looks like the guys in the 2nd photo are all wearing the same kind of hat.....

Tom A said:

I think it's interesting, that it looks like the guys in the 2nd photo are all wearing the same kind of hat.....

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It is called a flat cap in the UK and has other regional names. I got one in 1967 to wear when I drove my MGB with the top down because it resists being blown off your head in wind. I still have one folded up in my raincoat pocket. Other than sportscar drivers, the caps are favored by working men, as opposed to "gentlemen." Remember Fred Dibnah, the chimney wrecker? He wore a flat cap in almost every video/movie scene. But there was at least one shot of him without the cap revealing a very bald top. A sunburn on the top of your head is not fun. I know.

Hard to tell in the picture, but at least some of the men might be wearing the similar hat with a fuller top called a newsboy cap.

Newsboy cap - Wikipedia

Flat cap - Wikipedia

Larry

Tom A,
I hadn't thought much about the caps.
Perhaps just like now many people try to fit in with the fashions of the day .
I'm not up on the men's fashions of the 1900-1910 period so I took a quick search and noticed some discussion about how these caps were often made from scraps of material taken from other worn out clothes part way down this page.
1910s Men's Working Class Clothing
No doubt they were easier to have made at home than some other styles probably most often by the women of the family at the time .
We take a lot for granted now being able to buy inexpensive clothing off the shelf and throw it out after a short time like so many other modern things.
Jim
P.S. I see Larry was posting while I was still typing.

Cool oiler with the twist cover. Never seen that.

Conrad Hoffman said:

Cool oiler with the twist cover. Never seen that.

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Hardinge Cataract headstocks made from 1903 to 1930 had those rotating oil covers. I don't know who made them, but Gits is the usual suspect. Here are pictures of a Cataract 59 headstock showing the oil covers and a box of NOS Hardinge oil covers.

The little threaded ball-type oil covers were used on some Hardinge slide rests and tailstocks.

The fourth picture is my drawer of larger twist type oil covers that were not used on Hardinge machines. The ones with the saw slit in the knurling have torsion springs to keep them closed. I think the largest ones are 1/4 pipe thread.

Larry

My Seneca Falls Star lathe has similar oilers on the headstock. Quite likely Larry is correct--an early version of covered oiler made by Gits or a competing company.

Tom B.

Look close at the other clothes the men are wearing. It's fall or winter, they're mostly wearing two or three layers. There's no heat in that shop and the hats are there to help stave off the cold while you're standing at a machine for an entire shift. This is a common feature of those older shops. No heat, limited sanitary facilities - this is why the wood toolboxes have a mirror in the lid, not to comb your hair but rather to help get a chip out of your eye in a hurry.

Gents, many thanks for your contributions. I suspect that “technocrat” is correct and that the lathe is from Johann Weisser. This assessment is based on the following observations.
1. The images on the left are from the Johann Weisser pages at Lathes.co.uk. I found an image of one lathe that has an identical treadle arrangement.


2. The shape of the legs also appears to be the same.

3. The casting that holds the spindle and driven pulleys is the same shape as mine.


4. I’ve only managed to find identical steady rests in 2 Johann Weisser images.


5. The tool holding system appears to be the same.


6. The step down in the bed under the gap in the bed appears to be the same.


7. The change gears appear to be the same design.


Having said that, evidence to the contrary is the fact that there is no Johann Weisser label on it. Other Johann Weisser lathes appear to be labelled as such.

The Lathes.co.uk site also reveals the following:
“Oscar Ehrlich was a well known, long-established and prolific manufacturer of lathes with premises at Chemnitz, in Germany. Although the Company exported widely, it appears to have been common for them to leave off any identifying marks from their machines and instead market them through distributors”. So is it an Oscar Ehrlich?
The appearance and font used on the change gear table of an Oscar Ehrlich lathe in an image from Lathes.co.uk appears to be the same as mine. However it has an Oscar Ehrlich logo on it and mine doesn’t.

I thought I was on to an answer recently when I saw a local on-line advertisement for a lathe with the same style of tail stock. I approached the seller about the brand but he had also been unable to find any identifying marks.
So, my best guess is Johann Weisser, but I’d be happy to be shown if I’ve got it wrong.