Van Norman / Bridgeport hybrid - Please help

Howdy Folks,

I posted this in the Bridgeport forum and someone recomended it would be better served here. Pictures will be in the 2nd post.

I just purchased this mill and hope ya’ll can help me out with some information. The door on the base says:

Van Norman Duplex Milling Machine #2
Patents Nov. 3, 1895 and mar 9th, 1897

The head is a small Bridgeport with an old 110V ½ horse motor and the serial # is M10655

I’ve wanted a mill since I apprenticed in a shop in high school. I’m 45 and teach Auto Shop and finally was able to pick this up for my shop at school. Yes I used my own money as the district will not purchase one for the school but I think it’s worth it to show the kids (as none of them have graduated knowing what a mill or lathe is) and to expand our shop capabilities.

The machine has a motorized traverse (x and y) and as you can see by the pictures, the top is missing something. Buy guess and by golly I figure this had two heads on it (hence the duplex). It almost seems like there was a horizontal spindle where the Bridgeport head is now and maybe a vertical spindle next to it (on the left), the missing head could pivot up and down (from the slots in the casting). The current Bridgeport head is mounted on a ram that can move in and out (not unusual) but the ram is mounted on another way that can also move in and out.

All 3 axis are movable but are sticky (not sticky actually, just hard to crank) and I’d like to make it work like it should. We have begun cleaning it up (mineral spirits & steel wool) and putting a fresh coat of oil on the cleaned ways to prevent rust (My auto shop has swamp coolers that ruin cast iron in minutes!).

As I teach Automotives and have a machining background I’m pretty mechanically adept but have never disassembled something like this before. Any hints or suggestions are very welcome and would be appreciated.

Questions like:
Should I disassemble this or can it be cleaned up assembled?
What was the original configuration of this mill and do you have any picts of what it was?
The patent dates are in the late 1890’s but is there a way to tell when this was actually made?
… are all ringing around my head.

Don’t be sparing with the info, I’ll not take offense if you figure I know nothing about this rig. Thanks in advance!

Mike

Pictures

Here is the mill. I realize that the small head size will limit the capabilities but a 1/2" endmill or small fly cutter will do just fine.

I confess, it was I who sent Mikey over here. My knowledge of Van Norman machines is sadly lacking, despite living less than 50 miles from Springfield.
Mikey, the only thing I might add is that you're going to have to come up with some sort of guard for the power feed driveshaft or remove it alltogether. Those open U-joints were fine in the 1910's. Folks today don't seem to have the same self-preservation instincts. Perhaps two pieces of PVC pipe that slide into one another could be made into a guard?
MikeyD's original thread in the Bridgeport forum

Thanks again Aaron. When I took it into my shop at school, the students even remarked about the lack of guards and one even went as far as to tell me to unplug it so no one gets hurt. I told him he's right and there wasn't much OSHA around 100 years ago!

We'll get that rig cut'n yet!

well its an old No. 2 Van Norman looks like most of the original head drive is missing unfortunately you see the very cool thing about Van Normans is there head as you noticed the head was originally where that gap and the T slots are on the ram and could tilt 90degrees from vertical to horizontal very quickly and would have been centered to the table also your Bridgeport M head is attached to the horizontal support ram so it looks like your missing some stuff

this looks like a good machine to demonstrate the basics

As a few have said, that is an early VN with its own head missing and the early Bridgeport installed.

There have been two No 2 VN's discussed here on 'Practical Machinist' fairly recently (and I should know as I have one of them). Here is a link to a YouTube video of one of these, which i think you'll like:

YouTube - Van Norman Duplex No.2 Milling Machine

Yeah, too bad you don't have the original gearing and head. The big old VNs are beasts compared to a Bridgeport when it comes to removing material. Slow spindle speeds, but super rigid and with the nice geared powerfeed.

I'm sure those exposed shafts are intimidating to some, but even my 1942 VN 12 has an exposed shaft on the right side of the machine. It's not turning real fast, and you SHOULD be on the opposite side of the machine while running it. Back before the government was protecting us from ourselves, they had a saying... "y'all be careful now." I am much more concerned about the rotating cutter than an exposed U joint.

Northern,

Thanks for your post. All I have to say is WOW! That machine is awesome! I can easily see what is missing and it is a shame someone canabalized mine. I'm still pretty happy with it the way it is but, MAN! It used to be a pretty stout rig.

I'm going to rip that vid and show it to my classes.

Any advice on cleaning and maintenance would be appreciated.

Mikey

Thanks NewGuy, I'm looking foward to showing it off to the kids.

Mike C,

I agree! Especially after seeing Northern's video. I do suspect however that if it was an intact functional machine, I'd've had to have forked out more than 4 bills.

I am good with the "Ya'll be carefull now" at home, but at school with 30+ hormone laden teenagers who know way more than I do, (just aks em!) it's a different story.

Thanks for the post!

Remember That Shop Teacher? He was Cool!

Hey Mikey D- Your dedication to your students and your craft will never be acknowledged by the school system you work for. Someday, somewhere, your student will be bent over some machine or vehicle that needs their attention. They will say, "It would be great if my old shop teacher could see this, he would love it." You would love it, and you are passing your enthusiasm and knowledge to those who can accept it. Thanks from all of us, and Regards, Clark

Thanks so much Clark.

I get incredible satisfaction from teaching my kids!

Love 'em all, even the horrible ones! :-)

Even in fully functional condition, I doubt it would have gone for very much more. VNs are just not that popular, which is great for those of us who like them!

I wonder if the cutterhead from a #6 or 12 would fit that machine? There was a guy on Fleabay, parting out an entire #12 a while back.

Here we go!

Well we got into the mill today!

Fasto was correct the collets are Morse #2. I looked them up on Ebay and can get a set for around $35. Chineese prolly but they should work for what we will be using it to do.

And he was right again, I took the table off and the lead screw was gummy with grease.

We'll be cleaning it up tomorrow. The ways (weighs?) don't look too bad for a machine almost a hundred years old. I can even see some scrape marks from the original guy who scraped them.

My son was standing next to me and said, "he's dead now, right?"

I replied, "Quite probably."

He said, "Well his legacy is living on in this machine."

I love my kid!

The reason for this post (aside from bragging about my son) is to request help with the Y axis table. I was able to figure out how to get the X axis table off, but the front to back slide has all of the gear drive in it as well. It is not in as good condition as the well protected x axis ways. There are several left to right grooves on it. It will still be servicable though.

The front handle is pinned to the shaft. There is a cover over the engagement gear on the front which looks easy to remove. I guess the big question is how do I remove the lead screw? How is it held in on the front or rear?

I'm going to leave the z axis alone (knee?) It feels right and snug and moves easily up and down.

Also, what type of oil should I use on the ways? (after I get the holes cleaned out!) (And go on and say way oil so I feel stupid)

The only other question I have right now is what does it take to replace the return spring for the quill in that M head Bridgeport?

I'm sure I'll be asking lots more in the future, and thanks for all your help so far!

Here's some picts of the silly thing taken apart.

Mikey

You'll find a lot of first hand knowledge on the Yahoo Van Norman group. You may want to join it. vannorman : Van Norman

Reg, I think this is more 22L sized, if I am remembering the one here in town right. In fact, I'm almost positive the original head used VN#2 collets, same as the older 22Ls.

BP originally made just the M heads for retrofitting onto others mills, like here. So the head came first, then the complete machine and in the 50s they came out with the J head.

Mike C. said:

Reg, I think this is more 22L sized, if I am remembering the one here in town right. In fact, I'm almost positive the original head used VN#2 collets, same as the older 22Ls.

Click to expand...

Size guestimation from photos has never been my forte and I've never seen this particular model in person. Too bad, because the Fleabay seller does still have the cutterhead from the #12.

I think the cutterheads on most of these Duplex No. 2 mills would have had B&S taper spindles. A few may have had the No. 2 taper, though.
Andy