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Varying current on lincoln idealarc 250

marka12161

Stainless
Joined
Dec 23, 2016
Location
Oswego, NY USA
Question from a poor welder about a good welder:

I've got an old idealarc 250 (round top type) with AC, DC+ & DC- options. When welding with 1/8" 6011 rod on 1/8" mild steel tube in DC+, i notice that the current does not remain constant over time. I'll run a half decent bead, clean the weld, get set up for the next bead and i notice by feel that the current has changed. Sometimes the current drops, the rod sticks and the puddle is hard to establish and control. Sometimes, the current increases and the weld is clearly too hot, excessive splatter and some burn through if i'm not careful.

Anybody got any experience with this? It's a nice old machine with 50 ft. leads. It's single phase 220V and i run it off of a 50 amp circuit.

And by the way, Merry Christmas.
Mark
 
First off, check all your connections on your leads. A loose or poorly made connection on welding lead are usually the culprits. Connections or at your electrode holder- known as the "stinger"- and your work clamp (which is what AWS now calls the 'ground clamp') can heat up if there is not a good connection. This adds resistance and an inconsistent arc can result.

Next, check your stinger (electrode holder). Make sure the jaws of the electrode holder are clean of weld spatter, and gripping the electrodes properly. Cleaning the vee grooves in the electrode holder with a triangular file to get rid of weld spatter and oxidation and the film of oxides from the burnt off flux helps a lot.

Lastly, I'd check the primary current supply. Make sure the wiring to your welder is properly sized and has good connections.

If you do look inside the welder, look for the obvious: more loose connections. I am not sure how the old Idealarc 250's work, but I imagine they consist of a transformer with a tap changer and a rectifier. I know the old Idealarc 250's have a crank on the front to set the heat. This should work a sliding contact.
Check this mechanism and the sliding contact to be sure it is making up fully. It may have worn, become burnt from arcing, or lost spring tension to hold it against the contact surfaces.

Beyond that, I would question the condition of your electrodes. Using old electrode that's been laying around in unsealed containers for any length of time can also cause erratic welds. Moisture gets into the flux on the electrodes and the flux starts to crumble or break down. When you try to weld with rod in this condition, you can wind up effectively trying to weld with bare wire, then the heat dries out the flux above that section of rod and the weld improves, or, the flux continues to crack off. This leads to erratic welds with spatter, stuck electrodes, and when a bead is run, it is sloppy and usually has a lot of porosity in it.

For a rod like 1/8" 6011, the rule of thumb for figuring your heat, welding in the flat position, is 1 amp per 0.001" of rod diameter. So, for a 1/8" rod diameter, 125 amps would be a ballpark figure. As you try a test weld on scrap, you will find that the machine may tend to run hotter or colder than the indicated amperage setting, so you adjust your heat until the rod "runs" to your satisfaction. The other factors in determining the heat (amperage setting) are the thickness of the work and the rod itself. Different manufacturers of the same designation of electrode will produce electrodes that run slightly differently. The first thing in this area of investigation is to check the condition of the electrode. If you bought a used old machine and the person who sold it handed you a bunch of welding electrode in opened containers, this could be the problem. A person pays good money for good electrode, but if stored improperly, it deteriorates and becomes no good. The flux coating on electrodes absorbs moisture from the ambient atmosphere as soon as the containers are unsealed/opened. Within a couple of hours, if you were welding on ASME or AWS Code work using low hydrogen electrode, you'd have to get the electrode into an oven or rod heater for this reason. 6011 is a "homeowner" or "hobby" type of rod. It is a fast-freeze/penetrating electrode designed for use on AC as well as DC current. It is the AC approximation of E 6010. E 6011 will have a gray flux containing cellulose, iron powder, limestone and sodium silicate amongst other things. This gray flux is not too different from the flux on E 7018, and as such, will absorb moisture from the atmosphere and deteriorate over time.

I was in my buddy's shop a few weeks ago, and a young mechanic wanted to become a welder. He had the right touch and natural instincts. My buddy has some old electrode that had been laying in opened containers for years. He also had a really good Lincoln "square wave" power supply for a welder. The young fellow was running beads on scrap. His rod position, travel angle and manipulation of the rod were text book, but his welds looked like they were shot with birdshot for porosity and there was plenty of spatter and some sticking of the electrodes when he'd go to strike his arc. He got a can of fresh E 7018, and his welds were immediately improved to the point that when he'd run his beads, the flux would curl off in a single piece on its own. His welds look like the "knocked over row of dimes". I am working him up to taking his plate tests in the 3 G (vertical position). A simple thing like some good electrode made the difference.

As I said earlier, start with the simple things and check the connections on the leads, then inside the welder. Also check how your "work clamp" is made up to the work. If you do not grind a clean spot, contact with the work clamp becomes a hit-or-miss proposition. At one point, it would seem you cannot even strike an arc, or you can strike an arc but it extinguishes and you stick the electrode. You cuss, fuss, and wonder what's wrong. The answer often is that the work clamp has poor electrical contact with the work. Trying to make good contact thru rust, mill scale, paint, grease, or who-knows-what coating on the work will produce some very erratic welding. If you strike an arc and get it going and the work clamp is making poor contact, there can be a localized arcing at the jaw of the work clamp and the result is the welding arc becomes erratic and extinguishes. You wiggle the work clamp, strike your arc and all seems OK for a bit, and then the problem resumes. The answer is the arcing at the work clamp jaw has made poor conductivity and it gets hot and resistance increases and the arc becomes really hard to maintain.

I've been around welding for over 45 years, and the last 12 have been as a Certified Welding Inspector. I've been around a lot of field stick welding, and once took a welding test on plate, SMAW using the Idealarc 250 machine you have. The Power Authority figured that if I were a CWI and were going to be testing and teaching the mechanics and contractors' crafts, I ought to brush up on my welding skills. The result was they sent me to an off-site welding school for 5 days. It was fun. I was put into a test booth with an Idealarc 250 and told to run some weld and get comfortable with the machine. Great running machine. An instructor/examiner came by and saw how I was welding. He asked me to run one set of plates in the 1 G position, then the instructor/examiner asked me to run a set in 3G, and he did the guided bend test on them. I passed. As I recall, I ran one set with a backing strap using E 7018, and then for s--ts and giggles, I ran a second set open root since we had time to kill. I ran the root pass on the open root weld using E 6010 (the "old" 6010 with the red flux). This is run downhill. It is a pipeliner's rod. It is a real fast freeze "digging" electrode and great for field work with poor fitups and dirt and rust such as you'd encounter if you were repairing farm equipment or similar. I then ran my hot passes and cover pass using E 7018, uphill. I ran hot and steady with that Idealarc 250 and it ran a smooth steady arc. About the funniest part of it was the examiner/instructor asked me to run vertical welds. He looked over my shoulder, liked what he saw and told me to run him up a set of test plates. He left me alone in the test booth. I was burning rod when I felt the back of one of my calves getting kind of warm. When I picked up my shield to get another stick of electrode, I smelled burning fabric. I had set the frayed hem at the bottom of the leg of my jeans on fire. I doused it with a bottle of drinking water and got back to welding. Later on, the people in that welding school all laughed and showed me a large steel water tub. They said at least once a week, someone would run madly down the aisles and plunge his feet, boots and all, into the tub. The reason was wearing low shoes and getting hot slag down them. I always wear a rawhide welding coat, welding gloves with gauntlet cuffs, a welder's flameproof "beanie" under my shield, and wear high-top boots for that reason.

I've seen Idealarc power supplies (as "welding machines" are supposed to now be called) that looked like they'd been through a war that ran good weld. Thos emachines are workhorses and can take a lot of abuse and neglect and keep on running good weld. Start with the obvious and simplest before you blame the internals of the machine. As I said, I'd also look at the power supply to the welder. Make sure line size is right for the amperage and that all connections are properly made. If you use a plug and receptacle, check the contact surfaces to be sure they are making up properly and not burnt or oxidized.
 
Sounds like a scratchy control pot. Hose the current control pot down with electronic contact cleaner and work it back and forth for a minute or two. It's the same concept as a radio or guitar amp with a scratchy pot on it. Volume will vary widely and pop and crackle. Same thing in your welder, but instead of sound, it's showing up in the current. Might also check for mud dobber nests on it, if it hasn't been used in a while.
 
Sounds like a scratchy control pot. Hose the current control pot down with electronic contact cleaner and work it back and forth for a minute or two. It's the same concept as a radio or guitar amp with a scratchy pot on it. Volume will vary widely and pop and crackle. Same thing in your welder, but instead of sound, it's showing up in the current. Might also check for mud dobber nests on it, if it hasn't been used in a while.

This welder does not have a control pot. Uses a transformer saturation type of control scheme.

Basically all mechanical. The only thing that can give the indicated symptoms are bad electrical connections.
 
Another cause of your symptom can be overheating caused by crap build up on windings etc etc, causing them to be heat insulated with the cooling fan not able to get to the place where it's needed......…. and as the chances are the cover hasn't been off that welder and it cleaned out since 19 0 dot ??? ;)
 
Thanks guys. My money is on the electrical connections. I didn't give a second thought to the quality of the ground connection and i can easily imagine that being the problem. Next time i use it, i'll be sure to grind off the mill-scale.

I did replace one of the high power diodes in the bridge rectifier circuit a few years ago and when i was in there did a bit of clean up so i'm pretty sure nothing is fouled.
 
"This welder does not have a control pot. Uses a transformer saturation type of control scheme."

My 1974 Hobart engine driven welder has a coarse adjustment with 6 settings and a fine control pot to tweak in between. Figured this might be close to the same.
 
My 1974 Hobart engine driven welder has a coarse adjustment with 6 settings and a fine control pot to tweak in between. Figured this might be close to the same.

This one is pretty primitive, a transformer with some kinda, movable slug in the core, a rectifier, a mechanical mode switch and a rectifier overload switch.
 
Thanks guys. My money is on the electrical connections. I didn't give a second thought to the quality of the ground connection and i can easily imagine that being the problem. Next time i use it, i'll be sure to grind off the mill-scale.

I did replace one of the high power diodes in the bridge rectifier circuit a few years ago and when i was in there did a bit of clean up so i'm pretty sure nothing is fouled.

As stated before, check all of your connections and a good indication that there is resistance in a connection is if it becomes warm after a bit of welding.. I have even seen old welding lead crap out underneath insulation where it cannot be readily detected..All it takes is a bit of a bad connection to cause a problem.. As you start welding, a bad connection becomes warm and resistance rises which causes even more resistance.. It is a thing which builds upon itself.. I have been welding for over forty years and have see a thing or two.. Ramsay 1
 
As stated before, check all of your connections and a good indication that there is resistance in a connection is if it becomes warm after a bit of welding.. I have even seen old welding lead crap out underneath insulation where it cannot be readily detected..All it takes is a bit of a bad connection to cause a problem.. As you start welding, a bad connection becomes warm and resistance rises which causes even more resistance.. It is a thing which builds upon itself.. I have been welding for over forty years and have see a thing or two.. Ramsay 1

Have seen them glowing as the welder is running a bead.

Why not crank it up and grab a large rod, and push it hard, to see what
lights up ?
 
Contrary to what the tome above would have you believe, if you put the rods in an oven for a few hours any moisture content will evaporate and you’ll have one less variable.
 
Thanks again for all the feedback. In addition to paying close attention to the ground connection, i will look carefully at the leads, particularly where they connect to the stinger and the ground clamp.

Yes, this welder is indeed dead simple which was part of the appeal for me.

With respect to the welding rod, i use mostly new 6011 rod as i don't have a rod oven. I do have some 7018 still in the package but have not used it. I also have some 7018 which has been out of the package but have no rod oven to keep it dry. I wouldn't use this rod for anything but practice but it might not even be good for that.
 
A "rod oven" can be as simple as a mostly closed metal box with a 100W lightbulb (old style) under it. A 60 watt will work too, but takes longer maybe.
 
A lot of backwoods mechanics and welders used to take an old refrigerator and hang a light bulb in it for electrode storage. The reefer, being an insulated cabinet, worked fine for this purpose and stayed warm from a 100 watt bulb. Specs for electrode storage call for quite a higher temperature, but if the electrode is stored such that the heated cabinet never gets below the dew point of the air inside it, the rod is fine for most purposes.

At home, I keep my electrode stored on top of the smokebox of the coal fired heating boiler. This maintains it nice and warm at least from late October until sometime in April when I stop firing the boiler.

On jobsites, the tendency was for people to put food to be warmed up into the rod ovens. It defeated the purpose of the rod ovens by adding moisture and possibly oils into the atmosphere inside them. On one jobsite, some guy put a can of pork and beans, or maybe it was Spaghetti-O's, into a rod oven along with a couple of hundred pounds of E 7018. This guy figured he'd remember to pull the can in time and did not vent the can. It exploded inside the rod oven, coating most of the electrodes with sauce and all else. A couple of hundred pounds of E 7018 went into the dumpster, but since it was a nuke job, every stick of electrode had to be bent double to render it un-usable.
 
Temperature change of the metal?

MUCH more noticeable on my MIG with aluminum. Start of a bead is cranky, then it evens out, then towards the end I start burning through (back it up with a steel plate to prevent this with aluminum.)

Of course you could be welding steel with AC - then the weld is "cranky" all the way.

Joe in NH
 
Agree with all above, very good advice. I have found 7018 is my go to rod and use it when I can. At my RR museum it is a constant battle to get people not to open a bread box of 7018 so they can weld a bracket. Then they leave to rod out and soon it is substandard to use. Most of the time I can get by with it as most of what I end up doing is build up which gets machined or ground off. But I hate when big chunks of flux comes off in the middle of weld. While it might work to some degree to put moistened rod back in a rod over my experience is the rod is never the same. Regardless of time spend in the oven. The stuff even sounds happy when it is running right and the slag pealing off with a brush of another rod or by itself is a good sign. Harder to do with substandard rod. Used to cuss 6011 but I used up all I had doing some patch work on a truck bed last fall trying to patch 1/4" safety plate to some very thin and rusty 1/8 safety plate. A lot of burn through potential but it was what worked best of what I had to work with. I actually bought more 6011 and never in a million years thought that would happen! The old 5P {6010} was a much nicer rod and would do the job for my kind of work but have not seen any of that in years?

This has been covered before but I want to reiterate the point of taking the cover off and blowing out the crud, brushing it off if needed and possible. Check the easy stuff first and any warm ground clamps or connections first. But cleaning the inside if really dirty is like new points and plugs in a motor. If the rectifier is not cooling properly if can give some very similar symptoms. Where I worked many years ago as a welder, our machines got pretty dirty from the grinding and crap in the air. An older hand showed me this trick and by golly it worked wonders. Just one of many things a person can check out before tossing out a good machine and buying a new one which may or may not be nearly as good in the long run. I just donated my big Miller 3ph I had at home. I did not have enough amps to power it and could only run 1/8" rod, I ran 5/32s but it was pushing my 60A fuses and I didn't want to have to buy more so I stopped using the bigger rod. I am going back to my old Co-op buzz box that welds wonderful on 220 single phase. For what I do at home that is all I need. My old miller was a 400 amp machine and you can air arc with it, but I did not have the power or the need. Now it is at a RR museum where it can be used more to its ability. Interesting advice and will probably have to check my old buzz box out when I start using it again. I have to make new pin plugs for by ground and lead cables. Does not have bolted lugs type connections. Bought this welder from my neighbors estate when he died. Had used this machine when he was alive and was pleasantly surprised on how well it worked and nice even heat when welding. Unfortunately no fine tuning but for most repair work plenty good enough. Boiler work I would want a better machine and probably someone else to do the welding. I am getting older and my welding is not every day so for dicy work I would hire a professional or have a contractor friend do it maybe. Good luck with the old Lincoln. Regards, john.
 
John:

My local welding supply has the Lincoln 5 P (red flux) and 5P + (gray flux). The stuff is still available. I buy 10 lb cans as I do not burn enough rod at any one time to justify buying a 50 lb can.

I believe 6011 is the rough equivalent of 6010, but formulated for running with AC welding power supplies. The real "homeowner" electrode is E 6013. AC electrode, more of a "fill" electrode than the E 6011, and a softer arc.

For boiler work on steam locomotives, my experience dealing with FRA has been interesting. FRA is in the mindset that the ONLY welding on a steam locomotive boiler must be done using "stick" (SMAW), DC current, and E 6010 for open root welds, E 7018 for hot and cover passes. Getting FRA to accept a weld procedure using a GTAW (TIG) root pass and GFCAW ("dual shield", or gas shielding with flux cored wire) was almost an impossibility. FRA was already skittish about putting a flush patch into a barrel course on a boiler. Since the flush patch was fairly large, I wanted to go with GTAW root and GFCAW for the hot and cover passes, along with post weld stress relieving using on-site electrical heating and controlled cooling. 100 % radiography on the welding. It took ages for FRA to accept the procedure, after lab tests were done on the test plates. It's a long and sordid story, but after the patch was in the boiler and we had good radiographs (one set of films taken right after welding, another set after post weld stress relieving), some numbnuts decided he knew better. This individual and some accomplices took rosebuds and heated the weld seam on the repair and then reportedly beat on the cover pass with a sledge hammer. What he was trying to accomplish is anyone's guess. Unfortunately, what WAS accomplished was some cracks in what had been a sound weld on the flush patch. I never found out who the culprit(s) were, but the end result was a very involved boiler repair was scrap, and FRA was completely spooked out of any ideas of flush patches on a barrel course, let alone by some weld processes other than SMAW.

I've pretty much gotten away from doing mechanical engineering on steam locomotive boilers. However, one railroad for whom I ran the Form 4 calculations and did the Form 4 (boiler registration document) and Form 19's (alteration/repair documents) did contact me recently. They are due for the big inspection and replacement of boiler tubes. The boiler shop they are using was into the boiler and spotted some repairs done by persons unknown. These were undocumented repairs, and the welding looks questionable. Needless to say, I have another job, designing the alterations or repairs. A lot of it is in the firebox from what I was told in the phone call.
The head honcho on that railroad apparently took the documentation on the locomotive including the Form 4 and calculations and made off with it as he left under a black cloud. I pulled my files and calculations on that boiler a few weeks back and sent the RR copies of the Form 4, Form 19's and calculations (about 110 pages worth). Naturally, this railroad is out in the western part of NYS, an area known for really hard winters, and I will be going out there this winter as the job develops. Nothing like crawling into a cold steel boiler in a drafty old engine house in the dead of winter. I am sure you've done it one too many times.

I am constantly amazed at what so-called "professionals" and "Code Shops" can do in the way of work on boilers and other fabrication. On one boiler job, the firebox got partial side sheet replacements . This was a "covered wagon" or "keyhole" style firebox and wrapper. The RR used a boiler shop registered with the National Board, having an "R" stamp for boiler repairs. I had designed the repairs and the boiler shop got the A 516 Grade 70 plate, and formed it to the required shape for the partial side sheets. They fitted the side sheets and screwed in the rigid staybolts to hold the side sheets, then welded the seams from the inside of the firebox.
No problem with the materials, the documentation on the materials, or the welders or the welding. When I came out to that RR to check the job, I was astounded to see the rigid stays (not cut off and hammered up) sticking out of the wrapper of the firebox at all kinds of cockeyed angles, and the same thing going on inside the firebox. It was immediately apparent what had happened: the boiler shop had laid out the stay bolt holes on the plate before forming it into the partial "covered wagon" shape. Obviously the plate stretched some and bending allowances for forming the radius's all worked into it. The result was the staybolt holes no longer lines up between the firebox side sheets and the wrapper sidesheets. Not to worry, the boilermakers- used to powerplant watertube boilers and plate steel fabrication work- ran the staybolt tap through each hole and screwed in the stays. Out came the National Board inspector and PASSED THE JOB. I got a call from the railroad to come out ASAP, and I did. I had a minor shit fit when I saw the situation. The boiler shop sent their QA man and he stood there and told me he saw nothing wrong with the staybolts. He stood on the documentation be all correct for the job. I told him he was either legally blind or did not know what he was seeing and doubted he had a clue as to how the stresses act within a boiler on the stays. I told him he had better be prepared for a bunch of busted staybolts when that boiler was warmed and hydrostatically tested, and told him he did not know what he was looking at (and that is being polite). I put that boiler shop on notice with a formal letter with my P.E. stamp on it that their work was unsound and unfit for steam service and let the RR know as well. All sorts of shit started to fly between the RR and the boiler shop. Ultimately, the boiler shop agreed to remove the cockeyed screwed stays and asked for a repair recommendation. I said to cut out the sheets and start again if they wanted to use screwed stays. They asked about plug welding the holes and laying things out so the stays would be square and true with the sheets. I was not keen on the plug welding, thinking slag inclusions. The boiler shop welders plug welded the holes with E 7018, and then ran a TIG torch over the resulting plug welds to clean and blend things ! Go figure that one. FRA was OK with it. We filed a Form 19 for that repair and to change to welded staybolts. The boiler passed hydro and FRA inspection and went into steam service without incident.

I've seen a good bit of welding and boiler work along the way, and the people who can do the fine work are fewer each year. I get kidded at the welding supply when I buy a can of E 6010 and told I am an oldtimer. A funny incident happened a few years ago at the welding supply. I came in to exchange my empty oxygen or acetylene bottles and pick up some other supplies. A brand new welding truck was sitting on their lot. Lincoln "classic" engine driven machine, cutting outfit, Wilton vise, diamond plate toolboxes, welding lead racks, the works, on a brand new F 350 cab and chassis. No mud on the truck chassis and no signs of any real use on the exhaust of the welder's engine. The truck belonged to the local utility company. I asked what it was in the shop for. The men behind the counter laughed and said the young pantywaists at the utility company claimed they could not run E 6010 and blamed the brand new Lincoln machine. They apparently were supposed to go weld gas mains or similar and how those people got to the point of being tested and qualified for pipe welds is one of those mysteries. I asked for a shield, gloves and a handful of E 6010 and said I'd run it in any position with the machine on that truck. I said the problem was the young pantywaists come out of trade schools and are not really trained nor experienced as stick welders. The welding supply guys agrees, said the machine ran fine with E 6010, and as far as they were concerned, they'd bill the utility for a minimum shop charge and tell them as much. At the Power Authority, the clowns in corporate got into an E 7018 mindset, since they had never struck an arc in their lives. Since E 6010 was not as strong as E 7018, they decided E 6010 had to be banned. They then insisted the powerplant welders pass a 6 G pipe test, open root, using only E 7018. Much cussing and consternation, but people did it. The mechanics in the union got fed up with the clowns in QA from corporate who were coming up to test welders and qualify them. The result was the men put up a strong case to have me become a Certified Welding Inspector and handle the weld procedures and welder qualifications. I told one "engineer" that he'd never welded and had no business dreaming up weld procedures based on the argument that E 6010 was not as strong as E 7018. As I pointed out, A 53 pipe or A 36 structural steel is not as strong (tensile strength) as E 6010, and if only a root pass is run with E 6010, the hot and cover passes (with reinforcement added in the cover pass) more than make up for any strength difference in the root pass. I got a blank look and that was the end of that discussion. I could go on about the stuff the corporate engineers used to dream up and inflict upon the crafts up at the powerplants. Clearly, my heart was with the men, and I had little or no patience for corporate engineers who had never struck an arc trying to tell welders their business.
 
Funny...Have a friend that was in southern Ohio the last couple of years running
pipeline for the new gas fields.

He said the pipe is welded with 8010 root & cover 100% x-rayed.
Pressures are 5k to 7k psi.

So even in this stringent application, the cellulosic XX10 rods still
are being used with good success.
 








 
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