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Thread: Victoria U2

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    Default Victoria U2

    Thia machine is up for grabs "locally". Watched a vid, EVERYTHING works properly no vertical head though. Also no dividing head but those are surmountable obstacles when/if the need arises from what I can gather. For 1200 clams {Can} I still figure it's still a deal. Machine was only used for repair work in it's history as far as he can tell so appears to be low hours.img_20200829_1627278.jpgimg_20200829_1627170-2-.jpgimg_20200829_1553097.jpgimg_20200829_1555136-2-.jpg Included tooling.img_20200829_1556088-2-.jpg

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    Some more pics.img_20200829_1556145-2-.jpgimg_20200829_1555275-2-.jpgimg_20200829_1555360-2-.jpgimg_20200829_1553592-2-.jpg I also have pics of the outboard supports and bearings. Sez the oil is nice and clean and will drain the coolant before shipping. Any thoughts or info on it's age? Unfortunatly he already sold the transformer he was running it with. I have a couple of 3HP single phase motors here that might fit though.

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    Page Title

    Paul

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    Can't comment on price, but Victoria mills were very much the Ford / Gm / Chrysler of that era of the Brit M/C tool world, they were built to a price (and specification) and while obviously did what they were supposed, ...were not of the highest quality, durability or accuracy.

    IIRC the feed gears suffer.

    Many went to training establishments, but equally many went in to industry, often to do just 1 or 2 certain jobs, so were ridden hard and often put away wet.

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    There was one similar to that one in a local high school that saw very limited use demonstrating gear cutting with the dividing head on it .
    The shop was built in the early 1960 s and I would guess the one in your pictures would be about the same .The mill is not as easy to resell as a vertical but looks to be in good shape from the pictures .
    If you have seen the video of it running in good order here is something to consider,
    If you have lots of shop space can move it easily and think the mill would meet some of your needs until you find a vertical mill to go with it or a vertical head ,do a quick add of what it would cost you to buy the vise and all the collets ,tool holders and the vise gently used on ebay or Kijiji and subtract that from the $1,200 being asked for the mill and then decide if it is worth that much.
    Regards,
    Jim

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    I suppose the tooling boosts the usability factor.......didnt see an overarm support....must be one IMHO for that price..........horizontals sell for very little here ,and Victoria is a simple ,very basic machine.....they dont even have a clutch ,but rely on starting and stopping the motor........The vertical head for it is a pretty useless lump too,think maybe the same size for U1 and U2......Personally ,I d make my own vertical with a feedable spindle and V belt drive .Lot more use than the OEM one.

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    Here are some pages from an Elliot brochure, I think 1960.

    victoria-u2-p2-01.jpg victoria-equipment-01.jpg victoria-equipment-02.jpg elliot-london-6-60-catalogue-covers.jpg

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    And another Elliot brochure, not sure of the date:


    victoria-u2-p2-mill-02.jpg victoria-equipment-dividing-etc.jpg victoria-equipment-vices.jpg elliot-gen-cat-cover.jpg

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    I agree with Sami on this, " Victoria " were at the lower end of the food chain. The training school I attended in the mid 1960's had several machines just like that one. They were OK for us young and dozy lads to learn on. Some were really well equipped with those optical type vernier scales who's name I've forgotten

    I remember milling a steel block for a project nice and peaceful one day. The instructor came around and doubled the feed rate for me. The machine started shaking and after about 10 seconds the big side and face cutter smashed !

    I'm not a fan of horizontals if they are going to be the only milling machine you have. They're better than nothing but give me a good vertical any day. Much more user friendly for a jobbing shop. Just my opinion of course.

    Regards Tyrone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter S View Post
    And another Elliot brochure, not sure of the date:


    victoria-u2-p2-mill-02.jpg victoria-equipment-dividing-etc.jpg victoria-equipment-vices.jpg elliot-gen-cat-cover.jpg
    I'd say mid 1960's.

    Those " Cardiff " lathes were very nice little machines. They later brought out a modified version known as the Elliot " Omnispeed ".

    I think " Victoria " also made the later " Elliot " range of milling machines such as the " Omnimill ", " Sturdimill " and the " 70 " series of machines. They were OK but not in the same league as a " K&T " or a " Cincy ". The " 70 " series did have a very good pre-select speed change that worked very well though.

    Regards Tyrone.
    Last edited by Tyrone Shoelaces; 08-30-2020 at 10:55 AM.

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    Thanks for all the wisdom! It has given me [too] much to think about while out in the fields today. I should mention that this machine will be for a my own farm shop [without a clock] so if it takes a little more set up time, the end cost is still the same. I also live in a machine tool wasteland with the only mills on the market are 95% big production machines sold by dealers/jockeys. Mostly chicrap too. A "good" Bridgeport is north of 5 grand bare, so vintage horizontal would seem to be the way top go to get more and hopefully less worn machine for the buck. A lot of what I mainly want it to do [squaring metal/keyways/maybe a few simple gears would be a horizontal's forte no? A vertical head is on my wish list though.

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    With respect ,there is no comparison ,desirability wise,between a B /port and a Victoria......Prices here (dollars similar value---or lack thereof.)....Viccy U2 -$500.....Nice later UK or Singapore B/port $6k-$10k......As to the B Elliott Co....the building is still there,and still owned by the successors to the B Elliott Co........who have reinvented themselves as London property spivs......In earlier times,Elliott owned both sides of Victoria Rd .....one factory built the Victoria/Invicta/Alba/etc machines ,the other prepared foreign made machines for sale,by removing any trace of foreign manufacture......The founder was a refugee from the German lands seized by Poland after WW1.,later his sons ran the business......there never was a B Elliott......just a British sounding name.

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    None taken! Thanks for the reply from "down under" no less! I have always had a desire to visit your beautiful country, [especially the farming areas] but with the state of the world doubt if I ever will. If I was making a living from making chips, a more modern machine would be in the cards, but for the moment my cows and crops pay most of the bills and allow a little for shop tools. I have read a number of threads that extol the virtues and "vises" of primarily horizontal mills, and think, though I well might be proven wrong, that one could serve me well as I am adept at doing a lot of things horizontally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    .....The founder was a refugee from the German lands seized by Poland after WW1.,later his sons ran the business......there never was a B Elliott......just a British sounding name.
    That rang a bell John ....what was the guys / family name? - I knew it once ............... I think (as in think ???) they might have been Jewish refugees (I knew quite a few folk who were / their families had been.)

    I know - for sure, it wasn't Solomon Isaac Greenberg - he was my accountant

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    Quote Originally Posted by dundeeshopnut View Post
    Thanks for all the wisdom! It has given me [too] much to think about while out in the fields today. I should mention that this machine will be for a my own farm shop [without a clock] so if it takes a little more set up time, the end cost is still the same. I also live in a machine tool wasteland with the only mills on the market are 95% big production machines sold by dealers/jockeys. Mostly chicrap too. A "good" Bridgeport is north of 5 grand bare, so vintage horizontal would seem to be the way top go to get more and hopefully less worn machine for the buck. A lot of what I mainly want it to do [squaring metal/keyways/maybe a few simple gears would be a horizontal's forte no? A vertical head is on my wish list though.
    Don't get met wrong, a horizontal milling machine is worth having. It's just the lack of a quill makes them a bit " Clunky " to use in my opinion. For instance - cutting key ways. I know you can cut keyways on a horizontal machine using a narrow side and face cutter but it's a lot easier on a vertical machine with a slot drill or end mill.

    That seems to born out in the respective prices for used machines.

    Regards Tyrone.
    Last edited by Tyrone Shoelaces; 08-31-2020 at 07:52 AM.

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    The founder of B. Elliott & Co was Hugo Friedberger. As far as I can make out, he married Beatrice Frances Elliott.

    Their sons anglicised their surname to Frye. Their father did so after WW2.

    Some of their machines, mainly Alba and Invicta shapers and Progress drilling machines were made for many years by Richard Garrett Engineering Works of Leiston.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Asquith View Post
    The founder of B. Elliott & Co was Hugo Friedberger. As far as I can make out, he married Beatrice Frances Elliott.

    Their sons anglicised their surname to Frye. Their father did so after WW2.

    Some of their machines, mainly Alba and Invicta shapers and Progress drilling machines were made for many years by Richard Garrett Engineering Works of Leiston.
    I got a job with them once,and then I talked myself out of it. They had showrooms in London, Birmingham and Glasgow so a big gap in the Manchester area. They opened a machine tool showrooms on a trading estate near me in Rochdale in about 1978. They wanted somebody to install and run the machines in the showroom.

    Then Mrs Thatcher came along, trade dried up, and they closed the Rochdale showrooms in about 1981 or 82. So I dodged a bullet by not joining them.

    Regards Tyrone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Asquith View Post
    The founder of B. Elliott & Co was Hugo Friedberger. As far as I can make out, he married Beatrice Frances Elliott.

    Their sons anglicised their surname to Frye. Their father did so after WW2.

    Some of their machines, mainly Alba and Invicta shapers and Progress drilling machines were made for many years by Richard Garrett Engineering Works of Leiston.
    Thank you Asquith ............and seeing the anglicised name I now know how I knew it.

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    Something that will bring a smile to the faces of older poms........British and Best.....Elliotts spent a lot of money developing computerised machine controlls,and were involved in the development of the "British Computer...Mk1"....there was also a Mk2,3 etc.....they were light years behind so they gave up,....they should have hired Clive Sinclair.

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    Seems like for $1200 you should be able to find a decent Cincinnati or Kearney & Trecker horizontal. Much more solid machine than the Victoria.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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