W.F. & J. Barnes Co Drill Press

Deepsea · May 23, 2020

Hey guys, recently picked up this 20” drill press and need some help restoring it. The handle at the top drive wheel that puts it in “low gear” snapped off and I need a picture to recreate it. Also, I am missing some gears and parts for the power feed, and one of the gears for the power feed has some broken teeth. Does anyone have any pictures they could post so I can recreate the parts? Patent date on the machine is oct 25 1910, I looked it up and the drawings weren’t helpful. Thanks!

jhruska · May 23, 2020

First a flip of the feed photo

Some related photos

1906 Feed for Barnes Sliding Head Drill.jpg

Perhaps someone with a Barnes upright drill can post some photos?
John

Deepsea · May 23, 2020

Thanks for that! I’ve gone through several patents and catalog pictures and stuff, and unfortunately they all seem to be just a little different, and none match mine 100%. I also found that someone added 3 old gears and a weird hunk of very coarse thread hollow all thread on top of the counterweight. Unfortunately none of the gears are correct for the missing one, and I don’t think the threaded piece goes to anything on this. I wonder why it needed a heavier counterweight.

jhruska · May 23, 2020

Deepsea said:
I wonder why it needed a heavier counterweight.

Someone may have been using a larger drill chuck or boring head.

Peter S · May 23, 2020

Deepsea,

Here are a few photos I have saved over the years.

PM member Clodbuster restored his W.F. & John Barnes 20 inch machine. He re-made his broken power feed lever by comparing it to the backgear lever.

Edit: found Clodbuster's restoration thread: Barnes 20 inch drill press restoration (pic heavy)

W.F & John Barnes 20 inch, from sale advertisement in NZ:

Another local W.H.& John Barnes, I don't know what size it is, but it is 3MT. Sliding head model.

Barnes 3MT with sliding head top gear 02.jpg

Barnes 3MT with sliding head top gear 03.jpg

BTW, we need better photos, please! They are too small to see anything.

jhruska · May 24, 2020

Here is a group photo showing the needed gear(s):

John

Deepsea · May 25, 2020

Thanks for those pictures! That is a huge help. Yes I private messaged clodbuster just waiting on a reply. I assume my missing gear is a one piece casting for those two gears. I don’t know much about gears, but I’m sure if I measured the radius from the pin to both gears and used the same tooth style I could figure out the specs for the gears I’d need to have made. Reading through his thread though I was surprised to hear how expensive gears are to have made. 2-300 per gear, I guess mine would count as two

jhruska · May 25, 2020

Two gears assembled together. Some stock gears are sold with a Hub. A projection that can be turned so another gear can be mounted to make an assembled pair.
Determine the pitch of the gears, typical: measure the diameter, count the number of teeth and then add two (2) to the total. Divide that total by the outside diameter and the result will be a whole number or very close. That is the Pitch.
Measure the width of the gear. It will match the width of the new gear.
Martin, Browning, and Boston are gear companies that have pdf catalogs available on line.
Here is some useful info from Martin:

The gears for the Barnes are called Spur gears. Gear teeth are manufactured with a "Pressure Angle" that should only mesh with other gears that have the same pressure angle. The pressure angle for the missing gears is likely 14 & 1/2 degrees.
The other common pressure angle is 20 degrees.
With this info one could browse 'the bay' for replacement gears. New gears are sold at low prices all the time. I would look for a large gear with a hub that already has the correct bore size or smaller. Then mount the smaller gear on the hub.
Some machine work will be needed, turn, bore, keyway, assemble.
There is also a way to calculate the dimensions of the missing gears by using the center to center distance.
Guessing the pitch of the gears may be 8 or 10 pitch.
John

Deepsea · Jun 22, 2020

Time for an update. The whole machine was covered in gunk and what I assume was 1/4” thick of bondo. I decided to wire wheel it all to bare metal and then I coated it with penetrol to give it a nice shiny appearance while remaining dry and protecting from rust. This has taken an immense amount of time, but I am just about all done with the cleaning. After this I need to do some machining, which I will probably make a more in depth post later about for advice. After that I plan on pouring new Babbitt bearings, which will be a first time for me. But for now I am focusing on finding/making the missing parts and cleaning up the last few pieces.

Thanks for the great info jhruska. Fortunately clodbuster was able to give me the specs of my missing gears. Unfortunately they are not off the shelf gears and I will have to have them custom made. I am not a machinist, but I hope to start learning and have my own shop one day. For now, I need some advice!

First question, once I measure the diameter of the bores for my missing shaft, what kind of clearances do I need? The shaft does not rotate, and has a set screw to retain the shaft, so I don’t think it needs a super tight press in fit. I need to get some calipers, but say the bore is .500 how much smaller should I make my shaft? Also, how much larger than the shaft diameter should I make the bores of the gears that spin on the stationary shaft?

To go with that, how should two separate gears directly next to each other with no hubs on a stationary shaft be connected?

For the quill, right below the top retainer (not sure what this is called) that threads against the quill, is some sort of red rubber or plastic bushing or seal or something. What is this? Mine is cracked in half and I would like to replace it.

Last question, I need to get the worm off to clean up the cast part and to replace the bolt that’s trapped by it. Any ideas on how to get the pin out? I tried punching it out and broke a few punches, it just doesn’t want to come out. I’m scared of drilling it because The pin is at a weird angle.

Sorry for the flipped image, no matter which way I flip it the forum flips it the wrong way, not sure how to fix it. Thanks for any help!

ClappedOutBport · Jun 22, 2020

Deepsea said:
Time for an update. The whole machine was covered in gunk and what I assume was 1/4” thick of bondo. I decided to wire wheel it all to bare metal and then I coated it with penetrol to give it a nice shiny appearance while remaining dry and protecting from rust. This has taken an immense amount of time, but I am just about all done with the cleaning. After this I need to do some machining, which I will probably make a more in depth post later about for advice. After that I plan on pouring new Babbitt bearings, which will be a first time for me. But for now I am focusing on finding/making the missing parts and cleaning up the last few pieces.

Thanks for the great info jhruska. Fortunately clodbuster was able to give me the specs of my missing gears. Unfortunately they are not off the shelf gears and I will have to have them custom made. I am not a machinist, but I hope to start learning and have my own shop one day. For now, I need some advice!

First question, once I measure the diameter of the bores for my missing shaft, what kind of clearances do I need? The shaft does not rotate, and has a set screw to retain the shaft, so I don’t think it needs a super tight press in fit. I need to get some calipers, but say the bore is .500 how much smaller should I make my shaft? Also, how much larger than the shaft diameter should I make the bores of the gears that spin on the stationary shaft?

To go with that, how should two separate gears directly next to each other with no hubs on a stationary shaft be connected?

For the quill, right below the top retainer (not sure what this is called) that threads against the quill, is some sort of red rubber or plastic bushing or seal or something. What is this? Mine is cracked in half and I would like to replace it.

Last question, I need to get the worm off to clean up the cast part and to replace the bolt that’s trapped by it. Any ideas on how to get the pin out? I tried punching it out and broke a few punches, it just doesn’t want to come out. I’m scared of drilling it because The pin is at a weird angle.

Sorry for the flipped image, no matter which way I flip it the forum flips it the wrong way, not sure how to fix it. Thanks for any help!

Typically a sliding fit is about 1/2 to 1 thousands of an inch. For a babbit bearing the shaft should be a nominal size. Since the babbitt won't have grown, making the shaft on-size should give the necessary clearance. Maybe too much depending on of the babbitt is worn. Which shaft is missing? For a press fit I usually do 1 thou press per inch. (1.998 for a 2 inch shaft for example.)

That pin looks like a taper pin, and yes they can be tricky. I have no good or clean ways of getting them out. I've had to drill a fair few on the Sidney I'm restoring, and it doesn't always come out perfect.

As for pictures, I think what's happening is what I call a soft-rotate. Your phone or image software doesn't actually re-arrange the pixels of the image when rotated, it just tells the software to flip it when viewed. PM doesn't recognize that so they show up wonky. The best way to rotate them on Windows is to right click in your file browser and click rotate right or rotate left. (PS, that's a pet peeve of mine. What the hell does "right" or "left" mean in terms of rotation? Windows 7 had it properly labeled with "clockwise" and "counterclockwise" but apparently Microsoft decided W10 users are too dumb and changed it. Minor, but annoying.)

Deepsea · Jun 23, 2020

Here’s a pic of which shaft I am missing. There is no Babbitt bearings there’s a few areas in the power feed mechanism that don’t use any sort of bearings, they just machined the casting. I’m really surprised that the current shafts aren’t more work because of it, though that could be since my missing gears may have been missing a long time, or purposefully removed and lost. There is a small broken chip In one of the teeth in the big gear in the power feed mechanism I wonder if one of the missing gears broke too.

Edit/ it actually won’t even let me upload pictures right now but if you scroll up there’s some pictures of the where it is the shaft and gears should go.

doug.wood.1694 · Nov 24, 2021

Hi i have a barnes 25 inch drill and want to restore it . Its missing the power feed and the top main flat pulley . My question is what is the purpose and function of the disc on the top shaft that goes into the back of the top flat pulley . I see it has a spur gear on it and another small shaft i presume another gear on that and the lock mechanism on the other side . Did the flat pulley have a ring gear in it to engage with gears on disc ? Interested to know the function of these parts please cheers Doug

Peter S · Nov 25, 2021

Doug,

It sounds like you have part of the backgear, see attached photos.

Engaging the back gear gives you a "low range" of speeds. The sliding fork does two things - it pulls out the pin which locks the cone pulley to the "disc" and it also prevents the disc/plate from rotating. The cone pulley now drives the top shaft through the gear train. I can't recall what reduction ratio it is (3:1?), but you need it when using large diameter drills in steel.

The photos below show the back gear engaged.

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