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W.F. & John Barnes (LeBlond) metal lathe --- pre-purchase once-over suggestions

Faeric

Plastic
Joined
Jul 26, 2020
Hey all! I'm new to the forum, but if I'm going to get into antique machining equipment, I figured having a community behind me would help ease the transition.

I'm going to be looking at an old lathe tomorrow. I've had a fair amount of 60~70's lathe experience in a machine shop (on a much larger lathe), but this will be the first that I own. It sounds like the current owner has not used it, but he claims that the previous owner used it regularly. From the ad, he claims the power feed still works in forward and reverse, as well, which is a nice feature. From a phone call, it sounded like he may also have change gears for it, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

Here's what I'd like your input on:

1. What do you think I should pay close attention to before buying?

2. I think I'll be replacing the lathe chuck pretty quickly---do you think this machine is recent enough to accept standard lathe chucks?

3. What sort of maintenance would you suggest?

Thanks for your feedback!

I'll drop the pictures here:
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Looks like an early Barnes No. 5. This model actually pre-dated the more common Barnes 4-1/2 by a few years. I believe the later version Barnes No. 5 and the Barnes 4-1/2 were issued concurrent.

Feed for this lathe is through the lead screw. A VERY large gear is normally used on the lead screw for normal turning, the smaller gears as indicated on the change gear plate for actual threading. Later version Barnes lathes have TWO feed-screws, one forward, one reverse, and a lever handle which allows one to push one way to feed forward, and push the other way to feed back. But this feature does not seem to be on this lathe.

In general, thread cutting on the Barnes lathes is done by single point tool threading forward, then the lathe stopped, the tool withdrawn, and the lathe "backed" to the beginning point without disengaging from the lead screw - thus synchrony between the cut thread and the lead screw is maintained. This is a threading modus which had been practiced since the beginning of lathe work (18th century?) and was continued as standard until late in the 19th century with the addition of "thread dials" which allow one to lose, but re-establish thread synchrony with the lead screw.

One expects the current owner when he states "will feed in both directions" is referring to carriage motion going left when motion at the cutting point is down, through use of a headstock mounted "tumbler gears" can be made to move right similarly. Threading is almost always right to left (for right-handed threads anyway.)

You may find the current chucks "not so bad." A four jaw chuck especially. Three jaw chuck are generally not as accurate as four jaw chucks, but are popular for certain work where all the machining is "co-linear" along a machined item. Three jaw chucks are generally "not repeatable" to any degree (i.e. every time you remove and replace something in the chuck you introduce a new center of motion.) Four jaw chucks CAN be repeatable, depending on how much time you spend fussing with it. I would hold off on buying new chucks until you get more feel on the lathe.

Your headstock spindle run-out is the most single important thing you need to worry about. Fortunately it is possible to "improve" any looseness at the headstock bearings. Be careful you don't over-tighten which can lead to bearing failure.

The drive shown seems awfully "quick" with a fairly large pulley on the motor. This leads me to believe this lathe was used primarily for wood turning since the addition of the motor. You want to have a considerably slower motion on the spindle for metal turning.

Somewhere on this board I did some arithmetic which indicate the "usual" rpms found at the different step-pulley steps. This starting with a typical 19th century set of legs pushing the velocipede pedals at perhaps 60 rpm (one push per second) to yield through the chain drive and flywheel/cone pulley at the spindle. Off hand I don't have these numbers but you can search the forum for my name and "velocipede speed" and see what turns up. These would have been "typical" speeds that this lathe is safely capable of "in the day."

As to lubrication, it's hard to beat standard non-detergent SAE 30 oil. But be aware that as part of your operating routine, oiling EVERY bearing is necessary, and your machine will "sling" oil with abandon at each use. It's a 19th century machine.

Which reminds - it is a 19th century machine with 19th century sensibilities - and cautions. It is absolutely NON FORGIVING of your appendages and body parts. Exposed gears were de-rigor in 19th century America, and a lot of machinists saw their life's career cut short when they got personally involved with their machine to their personal loss.

Try to develop a habit of working with your machine "one-handed." And keep the other in your pocket. Working one-handed makes you plan what you're doing, THINK about your moves, move hand from location to location with some trepidation and conscious accuracy, and most importantly, it SLOWS YOU DOWN to a 19th century rate of manipulation.

I have told the story of going into Worcester MA as a young man and touring the (then) five used machine tool dealers looking for an "early lathe." Ultimately also going to a couple of scraps yards with the same quest. I would tell each the same story - I want a lathe with "curvy legs", box tailstock, loose change gears, and ball-crank handles rather than round wheels.

One scrap yard owner said to me - "Oh, so you want to be one of those 'tit-fingered' machinists do you?" As he said this he held up his left hand which had a thumb and a pinkie finger attached and no others in between.

"Um - well not exactly" I said.

"Well good" he continued. "Here's what happens when you use your OTHER hand to try to pull the first one out." And he held up his right hand which was missing the thumb, the pointer, and the middle finger.

The poor man had only five full fingers on two hands! He could not even point me to the door if I asked him to.

"And now you know why I still run a scrap-yard into my old age instead of retired already from a machinist career. Money is not as good in scrap."

I thanked him for his advice.

So take mine (I still have all my digits even after extensive use of 19th century machines) and BE CAREFUL OUT THERE.

Your first mistake is the one that REALLY breaks your heart. I've come close.

Good luck,
Joe in NH
 
Hey Joe and John! Thanks for the feedback!

I went out to check it out...and found that it was in less-than-stellar condition. Sloppy gears, a chipped tooth on the bed feed, and sticky action on all of the wheels. More so than that, the seller seemed to want to rush me to sale. In the end, he's the one who scared me off.

The lathe is still for sale in the KC area on Craigslist. I ended up making a better choice (for me, personally) and ended up taking a long drive to buy a beautiful, mostly-restored South Bend model 420-Z (9"x42"). I paid about the same, and I'm much closer to having a very respectable machine to play with.

Again, thanks so much for your thoughts. Clearly I'm in the right place!
 








 
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