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  1. #61
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    The front and rear main bearings are not the same unit. The front is a double row roller bearing, and the rear is a ball bearing. There is also a ball thrust bearing in there somewhere. Can't remember which end.

    Andy[/QUOTE]


    The ball thrust bearing is located at the rear of the bearing casting at the spindle nose end of the head stock and IIRC you can see it sticking out of rear of the bearing pocket in the HS casting. It is inserted into the bearing pocket from the spindle nose side and must be pulled out that way.

    It is essentially impossible (as far as I know) to remove these main spindle bearings without damaging any of them, and that is why I advised you so strongly to just flush the bearings thoroughly and not to try to disassemble the head stock.

    Also: what you may be hearing/feeling could be dragging of the lock between the pulley and the spindle, so make sure that it is fully disengaged before jumping to any conclusions.

    So far as costs go - there are 5 bearings. The two in the front bearing pocket that the main spindle tube runs on are the expensive ones. The two the pulley rides on as it spins on the spindle tube are the cheap ones. The rear one should not be so high precision and not too terribly expensive either, but sometimes they get you on that one too.

    If I were to rebuild the spindle and replace bearings I would consider going to tapered roller bearings on the spindle nose end instead of the cylindrical bearings Wade used. Tapered roller bearings can be preloaded for zero radial play. Cylindrical ones can not, so as they wear they get sloppy.

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  3. #62
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    GREAT discussion. Thank you Andy and Inventor for your contributions!

    My plan is to clean up the head stock as much as possible. (Like Sandipaul and others) While also measuring run out, end play, etc. Flush out the entire assembly (Per Inventor's guidance), lube the whole thing up like a greased pig , double check that lock out is fully disengaged, and then make some educated decisions. I believe the head stock is in good shape and won't need ANY bearings. I'll just have to suppress my OCD tendencies on paint/looks and revel in the "function over fashion". I do have the head stock covers, and they look SUPER nice after being cleaned up and painted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darren McCarley View Post
    GREAT discussion. Thank you Andy and Inventor for your contributions!
    lube the whole thing up like a greased pig
    Don't get too carried away with the grease and pack the bearings full. The grease will just churn as the spindle rotates creating drag and consuming power and it will therefore heat up excessively.

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    I recall you mentioned that point. "The zerks are for oil, not grease." I'm using a thin coating of engine rebuild grease on parts that need oil later. Where I do use grease. Thicker grease will be used, in moderation, on exposed gears. Otherwise, oil will be used.
    My garage is not temperature controlled and flash rust is a real concern. Thus the focus on paint. All the shiny, non-critical, bits are painted in clear. E.g. All handles, hand wheels, etc.

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    Darren,

    LPS 1 and 2 are your friend. I use it a lot!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darren McCarley View Post
    I recall you mentioned that point. "The zerks are for oil, not grease."

    When most people look at a Zerk fitting they think grease.

    They should think "pressure lubrication" --- and then they should go read the manual to find out what the required lubricant is!

    So far as grease vs oil - grease is some kind of carrier like clay or wax or... that is saturated with oil. Generally, the idea is to use grease in cases where the oil will not stay put where you want it and lubricate the joint long enough to get the job done. In use the oil gets squeezed out of the carrier and does the lubricating. Modern greases can use lubricants other than oil - like molly disulfide.

    In my experience, most "old iron" used oil to lubricate their head stock spindle bearings, not grease. The oil was gravity fed from an over head reservoir or capillary fed from a lower reservoir via wicks or just retained in a saturated wick. This may be a result of the use of plain bearings with dynamic film lubrication as opposed to rolling element bearings or it may have something to do with available seal technologies.

    Some of the more modern spindles used sealed for life bearings or bearing cartridges. Even these modern greased bearings can suffer from oil migration and loss and from the carrier hardening with time, and I have seen rolling element bearings that appear to be "welded absolutely tight". I have also seen "old iron" oil lubricated plain bearings that were not adjusted properly or were not lubricated properly in operation and that lost lubrication and actually are "welded absolutely tight". So, it is a bit of pick your poison.

    The big point here is that just because you see a Zerk fitting it does not necessarily mean use grease. Also, what is there now may not be what was there originally. In the case of an old Wade 8A lathe, the Zerk fittings were not original.

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    Solid copy! If funds allow, I'll use the oil reservoirs when/where I can. A bit messy? Sure. But I like the look and function. Plus, theres less chance of a grease gun finding it's way into the mix. Future plans though. My goal now is to finish the refurbishing and machine some pullies, acquire a VFD, wire it up, lube it up, and make some chips.

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    Like aninventor says...a "zerk" does not mean grease allways. I would hazard a guess that many a Bridgeport has had grease put in where it should be oil. I converted a grease gun to use oil along the lines of this link, and it works very well:
    Building a High-Pressure Oil Gun from a Lever Action Grease Gun | MetalWebNews.com

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    I believe I have a used set of the correct oil cups for the 8A spindle bearings. I think they were a non-catalog item, made special for Wade.

    Andy

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    Quote Originally Posted by sandiapaul View Post
    Like aninventor says...a "zerk" does not mean grease allways. I would hazard a guess that many a Bridgeport has had grease put in where it should be oil. I converted a grease gun to use oil along the lines of this link, and it works very well:
    Building a High-Pressure Oil Gun from a Lever Action Grease Gun | MetalWebNews.com
    Sandiapaul. That's a cool idea. I may have to give that a go, if I reuse the zerks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy FitzGibbon View Post
    I believe I have a used set of the correct oil cups for the 8A spindle bearings. I think they were a non-catalog item, made special for Wade.

    Andy
    I'll take some of that action, and more. Email sent! Thanks Andy.

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    Just got back from buddy's shop. Great news. Run out at the spindle was .00025. We THINK the roughness we're feeling is a bit of varnish, possibly some minor corrosion, or maybe some warping on the cone belt guide. (Or what ever that part of the largest spindle cone is called.) So, we should be good. If not, I'll know it when I start turning parts and will have to deal with it at that time. OR, the corrosion, warpage, or what ever, MAY clear itself. Either way, pressing the bearings out are NOT on the todo list.
    We reviewed my v-belt drive conversion ideas and things look VERY good. Convert the pulley shaft in the tower to a jack shaft. Continue to use a flat belt, albeit a MUCH shorter belt, just between the tower shaft pulley and the largest spindle drive cone. Turn/buy a v-belt pulley and key it on the same shaft. (Now a jack shaft.) Align the 3hp motor in the normal spot, buy appropriately sized pulley for the motor, line it all up, and start on the VFD, remote VFD control/display, etc, etc. (TONS of etc's. )

    All in all, a good day. Oh, made my first precision part today too. .0004 run out on a pulley for a machine that isn't mine.

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    I snagged this picture from an old Gov auction site. It shows a PTO shaft on bed side of the tower. My question is why is it there? Does it drive something?


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    Its part of the belt changing shaft, move that lever on top and it will slide back and forth. I'm actually having a problem getting mine set up, its like its timed wrong or something. I can't get it to go to all three positions. Not a PTO.

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    That makes sense. Bar moves side to side as the lever is moved to change pulleys. Well, now it's a PTO. I won't have a pulley changing lever as I dont have any of the supporting infrastructure. Static belt location and VFD.
    The good part? I'll have a place on the tower to build up a tool tray and place to mount a remote for the VFD and tachometer.

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    If I recall correctly, it is rather common on Swiss made lathes, like old Schaublin to have a "PTO" either as motor with shaft protruding at both ends, or as part of the countershaft. It was used to power several toolpost-mounted accessories, like milling (to cut gears, using the spindle as dividing head) and grinding.
    I'm not sure if anything similar was ever made for Wade lathes.

    Paolo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paolo_MD View Post
    If I recall correctly, it is rather common on Swiss made lathes, like old Schaublin to have a "PTO" either as motor with shaft protruding at both ends, or as part of the countershaft. It was used to power several toolpost-mounted accessories, like milling (to cut gears, using the spindle as dividing head) and grinding.
    I'm not sure if anything similar was ever made for Wade lathes.

    Paolo
    Yes. That setup was once quite common on American bench and high-precision screw cutting lathes. Wade offered it, along with Rivett, Lorch, Hjorth, Stark, and most of the other makers of such machines.

    Andy

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    Interesting! Do you happen to have any pictures, Andy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darren McCarley View Post
    Interesting! Do you happen to have any pictures, Andy?
    http://www.wade8a.com/8aimages/early8a.jpg

    The large diameter round belt pulley on the countershaft would be used to drive a grinding spindle.

    Andy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy FitzGibbon View Post
    http://www.wade8a.com/8aimages/early8a.jpg

    The large diameter round belt pulley on the countershaft would be used to drive a grinding spindle.

    Andy
    That makes sense. I guess I will be keeping the shaft extending from the tower towards the tail stock. Never know when you may need a PTO.

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    Good week. Made some great progress.
    Gear box primed and first coat of paint on it.
    Head stock as prepped as I can get it.
    Bed is now under the knife, so to speak.





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