A way "Over the Top" turning

At Rosenborg Castle in Copenhagen they just opened up a new permeant exhibit of their collection of ivory turnings in the old wine cellar. There are about 100 of these amazing works.... most are in ivory... some in amber, tortoise shell and other things...... the tall ones are about 20" tall...... these both come from Saxony or Nuremberg and were made about 1630-75...... can you imagine it? the shop? the talent of the turner?


This is a detail of the one above.... ball is about 1 1/2" dia....


And this is from a peice about 3 1/2 feet tall...... your seeing only about 10" of it..... it was done by J.C. Opitz in 1782.....

Absolutely astounding.

What is the best book to get that might describe their work & working methods?

Don

Is that made of a single piece of Ivory? If so wonder about the size of the elephant it came from.

Wow!...what else needs to be said, thank you for shareing.

Charles

Actually I was inspired to go to the castle website and check out the virtual tour. There was a nice picture of a ornamental lathe built into a large cabinet. There was little information about it other than it belonged to Sophie Magdalene and was made by Diderich De Thurah 1735. Other ivory items in the castle collection are also attributed to Thurah. Posting a picture is to much of a pain but if you search for Diderich you will find a link to it.

Charles

Here is the link to that lathe...

http://www.rosenborgslot.dk/asp/genstande/bigpicPage.asp?GenstandID=91&countryID=2

I could make room in my living for it, even my wife would not mind (I think) but the museum just wouldn't let me have it.

As to how these things are made..... I have been studying that for the past 25 years...... they are made from a lot of pieces however some of them are quite large.... as much as 8" in diam.
For books the classics are Plumier's The Art of the Turner, 1701,... the section on turning from the Diderot Encyclopedia, 1768.... and Bergerons Manual du Turner , 1792-6 (2 vols.).... they are all in French, Plumier also in Latin..... but they have great drawings!!!!!!

As a sad side note when talking about large ivory, it was anounced on the Paul Harvey radio program that researchers in China have noticed that more elephants are being born without the gene for tusks. It is suspected that all the predation and poaching of elephant ivory has led to evolution where the once rare defect of elephants without ivory will now be common place.

Not to hijack your thread Rivett, I just thought how interesting it was that this should come up today when we are talking about large ivory.

Charles

Well that seals the deal, I know where I am going on vacation next summer. That just blows the mind.

This is from the Society of Ornamental Turners (UK) . . . . .

The greatest work on ornamental turning is "Turning and Mechanical Manipulation" by Charles & John Jacob Holtzapffel (5 vols. 1843 - 1897).

Volume 5, entitled "The Principles and Practice of Ornamental or Complex Turning" ( Reprint ISBN 0-486-26567-6) is considered to be the 'bible' of O.T. but there is much related information in the other volumes. (V1-V3 ISBN 1-85761-031-8 &ff; V4 ISBN 0-486-26567-9)

Other useful books include:-
J H Evans, "Ornamental Turning" 1886 (Reprint 1993 ISBN 1-879335-35-2)
J Lukin, "The Lathe & Its Uses" 1868 (Reprint ISBN 1-879335-49-2)
T D Walshaw "Ornamental Turning"1990 (Reprint 1994 ISBN 1-85486-108-5)

A comprehensive bibliography is contained in Abell,Leggat & Ogden "A Bibliography of the Art of Turning & Lathe & Machine Tool History"


Also of particular interest to ornamental turners are:-

Alabone E W. - Multi-Epicycloidal and other Geometric Curves n.d.
Amateur Mechanical Society, The Quarterly Journal of the, 1871-1887
American Machinist magazine
Ash, J - Double Counting on the Lathe, The Art of ,1857
Bazley, T S - Epicycloidal Cutting Frame, Notes on the, 1872
Bazley, T S - Geometric Chuck, Index to the,1875
Bergeron, P Hamelin - Manuel du Tourneur, 1792
Brown, E E & C - Polychromatic Assembly for Wood Turning, 1973
Campin, F - Hand-turning, Practice of, 1861
Chaplin C H - Ornamental Lathework for Amateurs, 1914
Danilevskii, V. V. - English translation of AK Nartov's Theatrum Machinarum, 1964
Diderot, D - Encyclopedie des Arts et des Metiers (Vol X. L'Art du Tourneur), 1772
Edwards, R - Micro-computer Art, 1985
Elphinstone, H W - Patterns for Turning,1872
Engineering magazine - 1886-1953
Engleheart, N B - Eccentric Turning, a Concise Treatise on, 1852
English Mechanic & World of Science magazine 1865-1956
Evans, J H - Ornamental Turning , 1886
Ferraglio, P L. - English translation of Plumier's L'Art de Tourner, 1975
Gilbert,K.R. - Early Machine Tools (Science Museum), 1975
Grace, G A - Art and Craft of Ornamental Turning,The, 1961
Grace, G A - Ornamental Turning Design, 1923
Ibbetson, J H - Eccentric Circular Turning, Specimens in, 1817
Ibbetson, J H - Geometric Chuck, A Brief Account of Ibbetson's, 1833
Knox, F M - Ornamental Turnery, 1986
Maurice, K - Sovereigns as Turners, 1985
Moxon, J - Mechanick Exercises, 1703
Northcott, W H - Lathes and Turning, A Treatise on ,1868
Ogden, W G - Pedigree of Holtzapffel Lathes, The 1986
Oliver-Gascoigne, M I - Handbook of Turning, The 1842
Robinson, H. C - Eccentric Spiral Turning, An introduction to, 1906
Savory, H S - Geometric turning, 1873
Teuber, J M - Vollstandiger Unterricht von der Germeinen und Hohern Dreh-Kunst, 1740

Bill, ornamental turning and THOSE LATHES they used... We see this stuff and we are like Jackie Gleason in the Honeymooners when he is lost for words. !!!!

Those lathes are absolutly amazing.
Turning was a hot thing in that era, Kings and assorted aristocracy were in it big time.

Amazing what people could do when they didn't have a TV to watch, a day job, or a computer to eat up all their time, eh? Keep in mind, this was just an entertaining diversion for those with lots of money in the age. Some wrote literature, some wrote and/or played music, some made ivory turnings.

Reprints of the Holtzappfel books are on sale until August 1st at Astragal Press. They are offering a sale price on the set of 5 volumes.
Astragal Press Special Sets

Notice, on the same page, the set of Kenneth L. Cope books "American Planer, Shaper & Slotter Builders" and "American Lathe Builders 1810-1910". The answers to many questions posted on this forum can be found in those books. It's the next best thing to having a huge library of old-time machine builder's catalogs! There are hundreds of handsome old engravings in each book. Ken Cope is a member of the P.M. board and has posted here.

Disclaimer: I have no relationship with Astragal Press other than being a VERY satisfied customer.

John Ruth

I thought I might bump this..... I was there a few weeks ago and spent a few hours studying these again..... they are just more amazing every time I see them....... I just wonder... What were they thinking!

Ivory carvings

Not trying to diminish the skill and craftsmanship of these masterpieces, but America has its own master craftsman in ivory carving, although of a much more humble variety. Anyone who has an interest in carving and or trains should go to the Warther Museum in Dover, Ohio.
Mr. Warther was a self taught carver who made magnificent wood and ivory carvings of trains and locomotives and they are all on display in his family's museum. If you ever go, you will be totally amazed by the man's talent and mastery of his subject. All this was done in the 20th century. The family business, which is kitchen knifemaking, is housed in the museum as well. I have been to the museum 4 times and see something I didn't notice before every time I go.

Go up to the little Danish flag and it should pop down in "English"..... then go to Castle in the center of the page..... then to Basement.... then to the far right side to Ivory & Amber...... that should get you some more info on the turnings.... for the lathe.... go to the First floor (our 2nd)... then to Christian VI's room.... it is just to the right of center..... click there and then scroll down the page and you should see it.....

Their site is one of the better museum sites I have seen.... you can go all through the place and see highlights from each room........

Hope this helps.

Still lovely examples of craftsmanship after all these years, I would have thought the ivory would have yellowed with age Pity about the number of elephants who were slaughtered so that the ************ sapien creatures could pursue their pastimes all over the world

Depending on the environment the ivory is stored in has a lot to do with it yellowing..... these were mostly kept in a dark closet for a few hundred years and touched only by the King.... he had a lot to do so he didn't spent too much time handling any one of them. Now a ivory handled pocket knife or rule kept in sweaty pockets of ones overalls for 20 years will be well worn and yellowed.

"Pity about the number of elephants who were slaughtered so that...." in this example that is not the case. In the 17th century there was no use for ivory in Africa, it just laid on the ground as elephants died of natural causes and it can lay for a long time.... as in 100s of years. The Europeans used it almost as plastic..... the traders simply went down there and picked it up off the ground..... somewhere I have a description from about 1650 of a warehouse in Amsterdam which was a major trading city that some 200,000 tusks to chose from.

I agree that today human's should not kill elephants for their tusks however I have no problem with what happened in the past..... we can not re-write history.... just learn from it.

Some types of ivory apparently do not yellow. I think that Indian ivory stays white. Also,there is a difference in ivorys from different regions in Africa.

I have repaired,or made new parts for a good number of devices with ivory on them over the years,and have noticed that the antiques made in India are often still as white as the day they were made. Not as interesting a look about them as African ivory,though.

Ivory is a very treacherous material to turn and thread. It will blow up in a heart beat. Amazing skill shown in those pieces.