What can I learn from a Hendey serial number? - Page 2

# Thread: What can I learn from a Hendey serial number?

1. Diamond
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" What can I learn from a Hendey serial number? "

Wether or not the guy stamping the number went on a bender the night before…..

All nice and straight, crisp & clean ?
Or wobbly looking.

2. ## Bed wear: how much should deter me?

I visited the Hendey again today, this time with a test gauge.
Measurements below. TLDR: how much bed wear would scare you away from an otherwise complete and functional Hendey 12x30? I have to take into account accuracy for my own purposes and also also resale value: I don't want to buy a lathe others will see as scrap metal, even if I could still enjoy using it.

I measured the bed wear in three places, indicating the distance between saddle and ground bed surfaces that don't contact the saddle or tail stock. In the back there's an area near the middle where the carriage is 0.005" low:

In the front the wear is slightly more, and measuring on two different surfaces shows the carriage 0.007" and 0.008" low in the same area where it's low when measured in the rear.

If I do the math—and I'm not sure I've done it right—I see the following:
• The overall carriage drop of 0.008" would result in a diameter variation of only 0.00012" along the length of a 1" diameter cylinder... and less in a larger diameter part. Not much.
• The 0.003" difference in carriage drop between front and rear ways should cause a diameter variation of 0.004" in all parts long enough to span the worn area. This seems to be of greater concern.

I also found some new number markings on the compound slide:

On one side it's marked 39-22, which perhaps refers to the 22nd week of 1939? That'd be c. 8 months after the manufacture date assoc. with the serial number, according to Hendeyman's records.
On the other side is the number 21.
Does anyone know what these number refer to?

3. Aluminum
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Maybe I missed it before... is it powered? If so, turn a test rod on it. That will give you the best picture of where you are at.

Or, if the market is hot in Portland, buy it, tidy it up and resell if it isn't to your expectations. Personally, if I had the cash, living in a place where machines are hard to come by, I would probably snag it.***

*** I am not a good influence btw. I have OID.

4. It’s complicated... it’s not clear the sellers, who are not themselves lathe people, would go for me making chips and I’d rather not ask.

5. Stainless
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I am ready to bet that this lathe has not been advertised on Craig's List, Facebook, or any other site, or the price is astronomical. Otherwise, I would be really surprised that it is still there and nobody else has snagged it.
What I can assure you is that, without much practice and a few tricks, you won't be successful in machining a piece within a tenth of thousand.
As mentioned earlier, unless you buy a professionally rebuilt machine with a price tag in the mid five digits, you won't ever find a 80 years old lathe ready to machine parts for NASA.
In my opinion, that level of wear is acceptable for normal operations and, even more, for learning how to use a lathe.
There could be an issue that is fairly simple to correct: the saddle tends to wear on the extremities and start rocking because the bearing surface on the bed is just in the middle, more or less under the cross-slide. this could reduce the rigidity of the machine, causing chatter and other issues.
It is easy to check if this is indeed the case, by mounting the indicator on each of the for extremities of the saddle and try rocking it. the solution is to remove the saddle and blind scrape the center portions, relieving it, so that it doesn't touch any more. you don't even need to do a good scraping job since nobody will see the ugliness of it and, anyhow, you are scraping for relief, not for bearing and you can use a worn out file to make your scraper.

Finally, just ask yourself if you really want this lathe, if you are interested in learning how to use it, etc., or do you prefer spending the next few years mumbling about it.

Paolo

6. Diamond
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Originally Posted by lapoole
I visited the Hendey again today, this time with a test gauge.
Measurements below. TLDR: how much bed wear would scare you away from an otherwise complete and functional Hendey 12x30? I have to take into account accuracy for my own purposes and also also resale value: I don't want to buy a lathe others will see as scrap metal, even if I could still enjoy using it.
Suggest you re-focus your attention to the acquisition of "used ladies", then. Or perhaps real-estate?

They do just fine assuring their OWN future value, worn bedways or never.

Old Iron should be classed as a near-as-dammit certainty of a dead-loss as to resale value - same as books already read, meals already eaten, sex acts gone "historical", or cinema already viewed.

You either enjoyed the price in value well-enough to take-on another go at 'em and carry-on.

Or you did not.

Don't count on any greater recovery from Old Iron than the value of yesterday's lunch, or this morning's loving "wake up" shag, and you won't be blindsided.

That basic.

7. Thanks for the additional info Paolo.
Like I said, "it's complicated." The lathe was advertised on Craigslist for c. 6 weeks earlier this year and some people came to look at it... but it hasn't sold. I've had an offer in since January that the sellers have been refusing even though they have no other bidders. Knowledgeable locals I've spoken with say my offer is reasonable, maybe even too high for the lathe's condition & desirability, so I'm not going to bid against myself. I'm satisfied now that my offer's reasonable and that I do want it if they're willing to sell. They'll sell when they're ready, hopefully to me but who knows?

8. Originally Posted by thermite
Suggest you re-focus your attention to the acquisition of "used ladies", then...
Old Iron should be classed as a near-as-dammit certainty of a dead-loss as to resale value
Sounds like I may have misunderstood "practical machinist."

9. ## Lead screw running backward

Originally Posted by Paolo_MD
During normal operation, the shuttle bar is only used to disengage the dog clutch (i.e. the bar passes through a ring cast into the apron and that ring pushes the stop clamped to the bar: once the clutch is shifted in the disengaged position, there is no further movement of the apron, therefore it won't engage in the opposite direction, unless you move the apron manually.
Well the 12x30 has come to live with me and we're happily getting to know each other. The lead screw reversing mechanism is working now; thanks esp. Paolo and Craig for your info on it.

Part of why I had trouble making sense of it is that it's running in reverse! When I lift up on the reversing lever it feeds toward the spindle and when I put the lever down to engage the feed the carriage moves toward the tailstock. As a result, the automatic stops on the shuttle bar do not work and in fact can cause a crash as the carriage hits them the wrong way to disengage the feed mechanism.

If I open the access door at the left end of the headstock I can see a toothed belt drive that looks too modern. I'm guessing the original drive was a gear drive, and now the belt retrofit has reversed things. Perhaps the original drive gears broke or wore out? It'd be nice to find (or have made) replacement gears so the auto-stop feature could work again.

I'm also seeing a probable need for gear replacement in the lead screw transmission: the third speed range (on the 3 speed selector at far left) skips when I drive the lead screw in one direction. I'm hoping, since it's only a problem in one direction that it's a worn support bushing rather than a trashed gear, but I'll have to take things apart to really see what's up.

10. Part of why I had trouble making sense of it is that it's running in reverse! When I lift up on the reversing lever it feeds toward the spindle and when I put the lever down to engage the feed the carriage moves toward the tailstock. As a result, the automatic stops on the shuttle bar do not work and in fact can cause a crash as the carriage hits them the wrong way to disengage the feed mechanism.
Maybe you can comment on whether the spindle is turning the right way - like the top of the chuck headed your way

11. Fair question to a beginner!

Yes, this is with the spindle turning the normal way, with top of chuck coming toward me.

12. Originally Posted by lapoole
Fair question to a beginner!

Yes, this is with the spindle turning the normal way, with top of chuck coming toward me.

Good to hear. Then the belt drive, however modern, or differing from original, cannot affect the reversing system since it is gear driven direct from spindle - like with both the end gears in this photo , and the several of the reversing system out of sight under head stock (which were posted earlier in this thread)

13. Thanks for the photo; I'll compare that to what I have at next opportunity and post a photo of my own situation.

14. ## Modification photo

OK looks like I have a belt where you have a pair of spur gears:

(The V belts on the left are from the motor; I'm curious about the toothed belt running on Maska sheaves.) If I understand right this modern belt is between the reversing mechanism under the spindle and the lead screw transmission input side?

If anyone can tell me dimensions & tooth counts for the gears I'm missing (for a '39 12 speed gear head 12x30 that swings 14") I'll start searching for a pair that could serve.

Thanks!
Last edited by lapoole; 06-01-2020 at 09:38 AM. Reason: Clarification

15. Probably need to get ALL the covers off so you can decide how its been modified and for what purpose

I strongly suspect nothing having to do with that timing belt is original Hendey

And the reversing gear isn't about to work until it is all original

Your man to talk to is member Hendeyman - who has the related factory drawings

16. In your photo it looks like the gears I'm missing are both 48 teeth, and I should be able to get shaft diameters & spacing and see how the gears are keyed to their shafts if I pull those Maska pulleys off... I wonder what else I'll need to know before looking for replacements. I need to read up on how to spec. spur gears.

17. I need to read up on how to spec. spur gears
Hendeyman will have ALL that is needed to know - like that maybe they are not just plain gears keyed to a shaft

Chart riveted on face of QC box may say both "stud" and "sector" are 48 teeth - normal for 12"

If those are the gears replaced by timing belt, they are in fact plain flat gears with a key way in the bore - also known as "change" gears

A way to know Diametral Pitch - or relative SIZE of gear teeth - often referred to as "DP":

Mic measure OD (clean, burr or raised metal gone)
Count teeth
divide that by mic OD

Example

32 teeth, 2.125" OD

34 divided by 2.125 = 16 DP

Since you do not have gears to measure, you will have to use center distance

Since they are both 48T, the pitch diameter of the 48T will be nearly the same as the center distance

Say it was 4"

it would be a pair of 12DP gears

14DP gears would need a close to a 3.429" center distance

16 DP gears would need close to a 3.000" center distance

As you may gather - this dimension is adjustable by moving the sector or the "sector gear" itself