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What do we know about Sidney Lathes and The Sidney Tool Co?

Andy FitzGibbon

Diamond
Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Location
Elkins WV
I've seen a few, but they're not in Cope's book. Searched the forum and came up with a 1905 founding date (from John Oder), and a couple of out-of-date ebay listings, but not much else. Being located in Sidney, OH, did they have any connection to Monarch, Whipp, or A.P Wagner?
Thanks,
Andy
 
Wonder where I got 1905? Front of cover on my onliest catalog says "Established 1904".

Serial Number reference book has serials from 1930 to 1962, when it says "all lines discontinued".

The first number is 5532 and the last number is 10629, so they made a little more than 5000 in 32 years, and supposedly a little more than 5000 from 1904 to 1930.

Sounds like a fairly serious effort, though nothing like the amazing output over at Monarch or Lodge & Shipley.


They made 14 to 32" medium and heavy duty lathes.

John
 
John, I think it was me that came up with 1905 (faulty memory between reading the old post and writing this new one).

Searched some more and found this in a post by jlegge in the General forum:

Here is a very brief history of Sidney Machine:

In 1905, A. C. Getz found the Sidney Machine Works in the former Sebastian-May factory. This company produced wood working equipment under the Famous brand and under the Sidney name. They started building metal cutting lathes shortly there after, changing the name of the company to Sidney Machine Tool. By the start of the Second World War, they were only making metal cutting lathes. Sidney was famous for their herringbone gear headstock.

Sidney Machine Tool Company was bought by Buhr Machine Tool Company of Ann Arbor, Michigan in 1961 and renamed it Buhr Sidney. In 1963, Summerfeld Machine Company purchased Buhr Sidney to form Summerfeld-Sidney. Summerfed-Sidney ceased building lathes early in 1964 as they consolidated operations to their main facility in Pennsylvania. They then sold the former Sidney Machine Tool Company’s factory to the Stolle Company. In 1967 McFadden Machine Company purchased the liquidated assets of Sommerfeld-Sidney. John Sherbondy purchased the repair part rights for the lathes produced by the Sidney Machine Tool Company, in April of 1974. He formed Sidney Machine Company for the sole purpose of supplying replacement parts. Stolle used the former Sidney Machine Tool plant for a variety of functions last being a warehouse until it was badly damaged by fire in December 2004.
Also this:

I don't know but the building is still there on Rt 47 going into town. Red brick several stories and if you squint hard you can see the black banner painted about the top of South wall..."The Sidney Machine Co."

Not any more. The building was scheduled for demolition and the salvage guys were working inside when they started a fire with one of their torches. You could see the flames for many miles. Looks like they are building multi-family housing units there now.
Interesting, with as large a company as they appear to have been, that Cope didn't catch them. Though from the information above it appears they may have not started building and/or advertising metal lathes until around or after 1910 (Cope's cutoff), so that could account for it.
Cope says A.P. Wagner (formerly Sebastian-May) moved to Michigan in 1898, so apparently the plant was vacant for a few years.

Andy
 
Found this this morning on the Shelby County Historical Society site:

sidneymachine.gif


Sidney Machine Tool Company

An enterprise serving the woodworking businesses in town was started in 1905. The Sidney Machine Tool Company made a complete line of woodworking machinery, including band saws and jointers. The building housing the business still stands, and is located on Highland Avenue at the southwest corner of Highland Avenue and North Street. The site was first occupied by the Sebastian-May Company, which owned the assets that I. H. Thedieck purchased a decade later to establish the Monarch Machine Tool Company.

A.C. Getz had returned to Sidney, Ohio, in 1904 from Defiance with capital and wanted to make a go of converting the defunct Sebastian-May firm into a success — the Sidney Machine Tool Company. He had a penchant for inventions and agricultural pursuits, the latter including the ‘culture’ of aristocratic breeds of hogs. Getz’ hogs were fed on fresh whole milk and clean grains, shampooed and manicured every morning.

His most famous invention was the "Universal" wood worker, which combined 5 to 16 machines by supplementary equipment, and enabled 5 men to work at one time without interference. It was regarded as invaluable in the small woodworking factory, where there was not room to accommodate several individual power-driven machines. The Sidney Tool’s most popular line of equipment was the ‘Famous’ line of woodworking machinery. Around WWI, the company got into the machine tool business and began the manufacture of engine lathes. During the war, government orders for this line demanded about 90% of the company’s capacity. The firm continued in the wood machine business until about WWII. The building is now vacant after having been previously used for years by the Stolle Corporation for storage.


The above written by Rich Wallace in 1998; the fire and demolition of the plant must have occured since then. If they didn't make metal lathes until "around WWI" as he says, that would explain their omission from American Lathe Builders.
Tom, I saw that one and am hoping someone will buy it so I don't...

Andy
 
I found some interesting old photostats (pre zerox copies) of a sidney catalog. It showed over head belt drive models with quick change. Also there were electric models, where the electric motor was bolted directly on the gear head, not above but right on top. I'd have to guess this was in the time frame 1910-20ish. I cannot help on any possable monarch connection.
 
"Interesting, with as large a company as they appear to have been, that Cope didn't catch them. Though from the information above it appears they may have not started building and/or advertising metal lathes until around or after 1910 (Cope's cutoff), so that could account for it.
Cope says A.P. Wagner (formerly Sebastian-May) moved to Michigan in 1898, so apparently the plant was vacant for a few years."


Sidney produced wood working machinery intially, and did not start building metal turing lathes until after 1910. Copes book only covered lathe builder upto 1910. Sidney was a major lathe builder from WWI through WWII post war period.

By the way the factory was torn down after the 2004 fire.

John
 
Yeah, John, I amended that in my last post.

If they didn't make metal lathes until "around WWI" as he [Rich Wallace] says, that would explain their omission from American Lathe Builders.
I haven't been able to find a clear date as to when they actually went into metal machinery; what Rich Wallace wrote for the Shelby County HS above comes closest in mentioning WWI as a time frame. Previous to finding that info all I had found said they went into machine tools "soon after" forming in 1904-5, but no actual date or era.
Keep in mind that this is all casual internet research, no actual digging thru archives or other "real" research.
Do you have any info on the actual year or years they went into lathe building?
Thanks,
Andy
 
I have a Sidney cone head lathe with a quick change gear box. Its dismantled and something of a wreck but as it has with it just about every imaginable piece of extra tooling, including a complete set of collets, I intend to restore it. Swing is about 20" and its about 72" between centers. Its been converted to use a separate motor and gearbox but still came with the original wall mounted shaft and cones that had been connected to the line shafting. Its pretty dark where its stored but I'll try to find the serial number tomorrow. It came from a Pawtucket, RI check printing company that went back to at least the 1890s. I believe it had been used to true up the rubber rollers for the big presses.

Joe Puleo
 
I have seen Sidney's ad for metal turning lathes (4 models maybe more) around 1916 or so (going from memory here). My guess is they saw the success Monarch was having and jumped on the band wagon.

It is interesting to note, that many of the major industries located in Sidney, Ohio at this time had many of the same people serving on their board of directors. When Monarch Machine was incorperated in 1909, A. C. Getz was secretary and acting plant manager. This relationship must have influenced Getz to start building lathes at Sidney machine.

John
 
I know where there is a Sidney lathe in a machine shop close by here, Andy.
 
I was wondering if anybody here had seen my old Sidney on eBay, at least you guys are watching for odd iron. Hated to let it go but I bought another one a 18 inch swing with a 10 foot bed 1945 war production herringbone gear, 18 inch Cushman three jaw, 18 inch Cushman 4 jaw, two face plates, a steady rest and a cxa post for $660.00 buyer remove. They had advertised the weight at 3500 I thought about 7500 and I'm here to tell ya more like 14000. What a dungeon of a boiler room it was in and could not get the tilt bed near the door, had to drag it on the ground outside some to get it lined up with the truck. I pretty much learned on the old Sidney and hate to see it go, just wanted it to go to somebody who would use it. Serial on it was 305 and guessed it dated from the 20ds. Going to haul her out and load for the new owner Saturday and move the new one in on the back side the Leblond and the Rivett.
H W Polmanteer
 
HW,
I started this topic partly because of seeing your lathe on eBay. I'm glad it sold- hopefully it will be used for another 90 years.
Dan, is the Sidney you know of a gear head or cone head?
Best,
Andy
 
Hkotyre

At least you had what it took to get rid of your first one upon buying a second one. I'm a failure in that regard. I decided to upgrade my 19th century (or close to it) 14' bed lathe with a newer better one, and bought one over ebay only to find out ultimately that while it might be better, it' still a 19th century model.
Now I can't bear the thought of parting with an old friend which was a 48/30" x 14' gap bed lathe
in exchange for a 36"x14' lathe, because after all I might find something to turn in the gap so I am sort of on the way to being a 2 big lathe dude.
 
We have an old Sidney in my dads shop. Overbelt drive with quickchange. Its on risers for I think a total of 26" swing and I believe a 12' bed. Looks like we are going to sell it. It has a three jaw and a 4 jaw with it. We even have a second cone pulley to drive it. Its located in Dundee, OR.
 
Here's another Sidney, must be a pretty late one. Massive, but for $1150 US?

Large Sidney lathe
 

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Interesting how many makers were trading employees, designers ect... I've noticed that the early Sidney lathes look very similar to the monarchs of the period, so much so that at a glance it is easy to mistake one for the other.
 








 
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