What to Pay for an American Pacemaker 20"x48" Lathe

I am considering making an offer on this lathe American Pacemaker 20x48.
Its at the same location as my monarch10ee.
I see the long beds [ priced at ] but bringing?? pretty good money but the large swing lathes with short beds seem to bring much less. A 48" between centers is ok with me.
The 10ee is about paid off. Time to make another deal.

This lathe does have a steady rest. I don't think it has a taper attachment. Its complete with only one four jaw independent chuck,no tool holders.. Nice ways. Nothing beat up.
The only drawback for me is the 20hp motor. I would have to get a bigger phase converter but that's not a deal breaker. I have a solid 200 amp service.
To hear it run I have to fix a generator. Bad injector pump, So its untested.
I was considering making a $3,500 offer. I can get better pictures but am trying not to show my strong interest yet. I believe its a good lathe. Ex-ray vision. This would be my last lathe!
Turned the chuck and shifted gears and it all feels tight. That's not a test run.
View attachment 297746Same photo
With the10ee they knew I wanted it bad. sellers had me I cant always hide my interest. Bad poker face.
I'm trying to help these good folks sell some machinery. I'm no salesman. Were talking about pricing. Realistic pricing. They were recently burglarized and don't want people out there. Hard to sell things like that. Thieves take more than property when they steal. I'm their only customer so far.
They are disappointed but times are bad. Covid has hurt sales
Its has done long term damage in many ways.

Comments about the American Pacemaker lathe's price would be appreciated. Always an honest answer on p.m.
I like it. Only 800 rpms but my south bends cut fine at that speed. 20hp of power baby!.
Thanks Mike

That is the "big" Pacemaker - very near 9,000 - you can tell by the 800 top end - it has EIGHT drive belts

Here is Bulletin 15 from 1940 (serial will be on right end - on VERTICAL face of front way - last two digits are year built)

http://pounceatron.dreamhosters.com/docs/atw/atw-pacemaker-bulletin-15-1940.pdf

I'd guess $3500 is twice too much to start - the thing is OLD

Thanks for the pfd.file. John Ill take a photo of the tag
Wrong forum. Could this be moved to the Antiuque forum.
Thanks Mike

It is real plain to see

Here is an example

johnoder said:

It is real plain to see

Here is an example

View attachment 297753

Click to expand...

I'm going out there tomorrow. Ill get that seral number.. Its a massive lathe for the swing size.
I looked at the motor one day. It does have eight belts on there. The 20hp motor is huge. .

Walter would be happy to make you a nice hook spanner for that L2 spindle nose draw back nut - if needed

FS: "L" Series Spanners

have fun

The tailstock and compound configuration look unusual. The raised base for the tailstock - is that the smaller non-Hi-duty tailstock? And the compound pedestal is unexpected. It may be a smaller compound than is typically found on a Hi Duty.

mllud22 said:

this would be my last lathe!

Click to expand...

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Oh god, oh god, let me catch my breathe !

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The RPM's seem like an oddity. Pacemakers generally ran faster, even when others of similar class did not, like maybe 1500 rpm. But I don't know what the "Big" version is.

It’s a 20” raised. So it’s swing is bigger. Probably swings 26”, by looking at the riser blocks.
I have a 32” swing that is a 20” raised.

I paid $325 for my 32”(20 raised) x 48” 30 hp, from an auction.
Which was a steal, guessing it’s hard to get 12,000lbs of lathe in a garage.

I don't know what the "Big" version is.

Click to expand...

Originally 18, 20 and 22 - all of which were larger, heavier and more powerful than the 14, 16 and later 20 medium duty. "Little" PMs were 1000, 1500 or 2000 top ends. "Big" PMs were 800, 1200 and 1600 top ends

By the end of WW2 and likely some later, the 18 and 22 had been discontinued and the a fore mentioned 20 MD was in the line up - it was just a raised 16

"stock" 20HD tail stock barrel is 4 5/8 dia - Be interesting to check this on the topic machine .

As of Bulletin 16 (May 1955 edition) you could get 3" and 6" raises simply by ordering them as a common option. The 6" is how a 20 gets to be a 32

Glug said:

The tailstock and compound configuration look unusual. The raised base for the tailstock - is that the smaller non-Hi-duty tailstock? And the compound pedestal is unexpected. It may be a smaller compound than is typically found on a Hi Duty.

Click to expand...

Above the micrometer stop there are raised letters that say [raised]


Texasgunsmith
I'm glad you caught that.
It isn't the first or last time I've said that.. I have had a long dry spell. I wasn't looking for anything! It just appeared, really.
I needed a fix. And Ill probably will get two that I have to fix! In reading the pdf John gave me if I read it right it was optional too get fewer speeds with a higher top speed.. That may be on later models. Like John said , this one is old.
I'll get the serial number too date mfg year tomorrow.

I didn't see johns last post

So if 3" raise, you have 28 1/2" actual over ways for swing

mllud22 said:

Above the micrometer stop there are raised letters that say [raised]
View attachment 297768

Texasgunsmith
I'm glad you caught that.
It isn't the first or last time I've said that.. I have had a long dry spell. I wasn't looking for anything! It just appeared, really.
I needed a fix. And Ill probably will get two that I have to fix! In reading the pdf John gave me if I read it right it was optional too get fewer speeds with a higher top speed.. That may be on later models. Like John said , this one is old.
I'll get the serial number too date mfg year tomorrow.

I didn't see johns last post

Click to expand...

Here is a zoom in of the tailstock. It may be over 4". Ill measure tomorrow.
John all great information. Thanks

I'd say $1500 tops. And that's under power and real good shape overall. That is not a desirable swing to length ratio machine there.

If I was going to house and feed a near 30" swing short lathe I would want a 4 jaw on it that just cleared that also had t-slots or a separate faceplate. That lathe has a small chuck for it's capacity. Kinda cuts it off at the knees in my opinion.

I can think of one job I've had in 15+ years that I could have done on that lathe well and made $500. I did that job on my boring mill a long with all the other weird jobs that need a big swing without being between centers.

Something around 16" swing and 10' centers would be a far better compliment to your 10EE than that Pacemaker.

Not under power I wouldn't pay a dime for that thing.

Just buy it and be happy and give it a good home.
I don't think its a odd size, anything over 3" goes in one of the pacemakers (even do some 2" in a 32" machine), just be aware they are big machines and take a lot of physical energy to run. You do not have the visibility like a small machine. Mistakes can be deadly.

We use to call it raised in the sand, as the casting was made over height, the lathe will have soft ways, if not real cheap hold out for a good one with hard ways, 750.00 tops for this one if it is somewhat tight...Phil

The chuck has t slots. I also have a 22" chuck. The chuck's .Brand name is National.
My options for a lathe this size are very limited. This is 25 miles from home.
This lathe is remarkably unmarred. The ways have no ridge at all. It was being used where it sits.
It's not the most desirable out there but its available. I like it.
I live in a rural area and that limits what's close.
I'm bartering my labor moving machinery and adding some cash on the dealings with the 10ee. Its $200 away from being mine
I was way off on value on the Pacemaker.. I appreciate the input.
I may give them $1500
I'm helping these people gain floorspace in a packed building. I was going to help them sell some machinery but am out of touch with pricing. They are also. I think the P.O. sold the building and contents leading them to believe the machinery had more value.
There is a Harrison lathe with about a 16" swing that I also may try to deal on . I am enjoying working with them.

See also bulletin 17 and 20 here. Thanks to Greg Menke

http://pounceatron.dreamhosters.com/docs/index.html

You have to scroll down a bit past the photos

In thinking on it a little more, thought I'd chime in late on prices. I had been looking at Pacemakers and Monarchs recently, and picked up a Monarch Series 61. The one your looking at, based on desciption, sounds in better shape which adds value. But the size and lower top end reduce it, because it narrows the window of people who may be interested.

Two I had been following on ebay. Both turn 1500 rpm. I can't really make out ways well, but the machines look a little rough.
The better looking of the two has taper attachment, but the compound rest has a break in it:
AMERICAN PACEMAKER 14 X 54 GEAR HEAD ENGINE LATHE | eBay

Rougher yet, as part of chip tray on base is broke, like hit with a fork lift. And no taper attachment. Does have a steady rest, and a couple of chucks:
AMERICAN PACEMAKER LATHE | eBay

Anyway just food for thought, as you negotiate.

One thing that always hits me kind of funny though. We all talk about buying these machines, in the $1000 to $3000 range. And people politely argue: "well I'd only pay a $1000, not $2000. . ." And we are talking about what would have been really high end machines. What's a Snap On wrench set today, $500 ? For a wrench set ! How much for a new Chinese drill press or lathe ? Getting a very usable, American Made, high end machine for $1000 to $3000 makes me a little more flexible I guess.