what's the footprint of a "small" horizontal boring mill?

marka12161 · Apr 25, 2019

These look like very capable machines and it seems like they come with motor horsepowers as low as 7.5-ish which is within the capacity of my rotary phase converter. what's the footprint of a small-ish one? any recommendations what to keep an eye out for?

Froneck · Apr 25, 2019

What do you consider smallish? Older Lucas HBMs were not very big. Size is depending on Vertical and Cross travel also if you want outboard support to line bore. Then there is spindle size. Older Lucas have Morse Taper spindles with about 30" travel. I heard of 2-1/2" spindles but haven't seen one. I have a 3" spindle Portage, 48" Vertical travel and 84" cross, long bed that I wish I didn't have because I don't have the outboard support. Machine is 12' long. Machine is about 4' wide at the widest except for the table which has support legs that roll on something like a railroad track drilled for leveling screws.

dkmc · Apr 25, 2019

You can use a Horizontal Mill as a 'small' boring mill.
And the foot print is as small as said mill.

johnoder · Apr 25, 2019

dkmc said:
You can use a Horizontal Mill as a 'small' boring mill.
And the foot print is as small as said mill.

Sort of - your job has to fit in the constraints

Set Up To Bore Apron

Froneck · Apr 25, 2019

If you look around you can find a Horizontal Milling machine with rear controls. Knee and cross travel have rear handles and dial, feed engagement both knee and cross plus rapid travel. Being your next to the "X" axis handle and dial a feed lever is provided so it too can be operated. I had a K&T 5K, 4K and 3K plus a B&S with rear controls. They do come in handy but the spindle is fixed, not bad to bore using the cross travel, short line bore with the outboard support but drilling and tapping isn't easy. Short drilling isn't bad but when the drill gets big it gets longer especially taper shank. Your kinda limited to S&D drills.

johnoder · Apr 25, 2019

marka12161 said:
These look like very capable machines and it seems like they come with motor horsepowers as low as 7.5-ish which is within the capacity of my rotary phase converter. what's the footprint of a small-ish one? any recommendations what to keep an eye out for?

My Lucus Model 41 (3" "bar") was probably 8 foot by 3 foot where it sat on the floor, but as can be seen, much longer due to gear box and input to same.

It was also way too heavy for such a baby HBM

No "out riggers" on these, so cross travel on the table was very limited. (More modern units have ways for saddle OUTSIDE of base of machine bolted to floor)

Aejgx6 · Apr 25, 2019

This guy is about the size of my wife's crv.

You could squeeze it in a 6' by 11' spot but it would be hard to work around. 3" spindle.. This is as small as I have seen. There was another available on vintage machinery claasified.

dkmc · Apr 25, 2019

johnoder said:
Sort of - your job has to fit in the constraints

I agree completely....

wheels17 · Apr 25, 2019

The Autometric machines might qualify as a HBM, and had relatively small footprints.

Oxtool has a series on the Autometric: YouTube

Almost 70 threads on PM about Autometrics

206978d1504095405-k-t-model-b-autometric-finds-new-home-k-t-autometric-model-b-13.jpg

Better image for size.

rj1939 · Apr 25, 2019

I confess to having a hankering for a horizontal mill a while back.............and I used the reason of using it for a horizontal boring mill to justify it, but even the jobs I had in mind were kind of a stretch.
Most of it could be handled on the KT 2CHL with the head swiveled. Then there is the whole, not enough room thing.

marka12161 · Apr 25, 2019

johnoder said:
My Lucus Model 41 (3" "bar") was probably 8 foot by 3 foot where it sat on the floor, but as can be seen, much longer due to gear box and input to same.

It was also way too heavy for such a baby HBM

No "out riggers" on these, so cross travel on the table was very limited. (More modern units have ways for saddle OUTSIDE of base of machine bolted to floor)

John,

This looks like what i was thinking. Do you think the over-all length is 10 ft?

I do have a really nice kempsmith universal horizontal mill with two vertical heads. But the work envelope is a bit small for largeer boring jobs.

johnoder · Apr 25, 2019

I would think nearer 11 feet over all. Width not too bad, but you do have to make room for the column which extends a bit to rear, and the table does have cross travel, just not as much as they did later

Lucas creatures are WRONG HANDED. Most all other HBMs had an opposite layout

marka12161 said:
John,

This looks like what i was thinking. Do you think the over-all length is 10 ft?

I do have a really nice kempsmith universal horizontal mill with two vertical heads. But the work envelope is a bit small for largeer boring jobs.

marka12161 · Apr 25, 2019

johnoder said:
I would think nearer 11 feet over all. Width not too bad, but you do have to make room for the column which extends a bit to rear, and the table does have cross travel, just not as much as they did later

Lucas creatures are WRONG HANDED. Most all other HBMs had an opposite layout

Thanks John. I could fit one in. I'd be sacrificing the space currently allocated to a workbench. I'll keep an eye open for one of these. Do you happen to know the weight?

Ringleboy26 · Apr 25, 2019

I have a 3” wewag hbm. It is about 10-11’ long and 6’ wide. Perfect size to fit in my shop. Could use a bigger one but no room for it.

Here is the forsale as for it. https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/machinery-for-sale-or-wanted/2-3-4-wewag-boring-mill-horizontal-model-70-a-208392/

johnoder · Apr 25, 2019

marka12161 said:
Thanks John. I could fit one in. I'd be sacrificing the space currently allocated to a workbench. I'll keep an eye open for one of these. Do you happen to know the weight?

Been too long - but likely between 9K and 14K. I do remember it being a real bear to move around with a pinch bar

Froneck · Apr 25, 2019

I had the Lucas, yes it's a left had machine, also had Cin.-Gilbert and a G&L which is right handed. Defiance and Ohio Dreadnought and a few others. I didn't mind the left hander, actually I liked it. Spindle feed with left hand but tool change with the right. Currently my Portage is a "left hander" wasn't supposed to be as big as it is, weight is 22K. Takes up quite a bit of shop space. But when you had them you miss them when not available! HBMs can do a lot of things! That 41 Lucas is a work horse, spindle speeds are kinda slow but it will get the job done!

Tyrone Shoelaces · Apr 26, 2019

How long is a piece of string ? How small is small. " Kearns " made the " S " type Hor bore which had a foot print of a smallish lathe. Look them up on the Internet. They come up for sale reasonably often. I think the revolving top table was either 15" or 18" square.

Regards Tyrone.

Greg White · Apr 26, 2019

small DeVlieg is what I would pursue.
Gw

marka12161 · Apr 26, 2019

Thanks Greg and Tyrone,
I'll keep an eye out for those as well. I can afford to allocate 4' x 8' with basically no impact, longer with small impact. This is definitely a backburner thing for me but i like to think ahead.

BrianB · Apr 26, 2019

My 340T G&L is probably my favorite machine in the shop as it is so versatile and has a good sized work envelope. YouTube I consider mine a small HBM as there are ones I have seen as big as my 40x60 building! Mine makes a good miller in addition to borer and that is important to me. Ater a lot of work and some tedious setups I was able to machine the "John Doe" shaper to flat and square within .002" over a 3footx2foot area which I thought was pretty darn good. YouTube The floor space of my machine is roughly 15x20ft.

what's the footprint of a "small" horizontal boring mill?

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