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Williams & White Bulldozer--Moline IL 1880

JHOLLAND1

Titanium
Joined
Oct 8, 2005
Location
western washington state
so I was scanning google earth today with virtual magnetometer---iso heavy iron deposits---when the needle pegged

remarkably---target site only 5 miles from my machine sheds

site is semi-abandoned but full of warning signs

came across what has to be one of the treasures of industrial archaeology--one Williams and White Bulldozer---vintage 1880--
original trade literature lists the bulldozer--build legacy of 100 years in hydraulic iteration--" Williams, White & Company invents the "Bull-Dozer", a machine with nearly universal manufacturing applications."--1880

these pics document flat belt powered eccentric arm heavy flywheel construction---and it may be one of the rarest specimens of its genera remaining
 

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Williams and White is very much a going concern---164 years and running
 

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Great to see this not in scrap pot!! Here is a great picture, one of my favorite on shorpy. Bulldozer just like this one brand new and in use:
Shorpy Historic Picture Archive :: The Blacksmiths: 19�4 high-resolution photo
Picture is way bigger that what shows on the screen, be sure to look around at this shop, looks like railroad manufacture? Also note the pile of dies to the right of bulldozer.
PS I would love to have this if they are interested in parting with it. I can use it in blacksmith shop.
 
Great to see this not in scrap pot!! Here is a great picture, one of my favorite on shorpy. Bulldozer just like this one brand new and in use:
Shorpy Historic Picture Archive :: The Blacksmiths: 19�4 high-resolution photo
Picture is way bigger that what shows on the screen, be sure to look around at this shop, looks like railroad manufacture? Also note the pile of dies to the right of bulldozer.
PS I would love to have this if they are interested in parting with it. I can use it in blacksmith shop.

I will try connecting with owner and let you know on tool availability

I agree---great shorpy pic
 
I have a Williams and White power hammer. I'd never looked up other items they made, nor expected them to still be in business.
 
A slight hijack of the thread based on Rob F's picture link. Despatch, NY, given as the location of the photo by Shorpy, was a large railroad repair town, and is now known as East Rochester, NY.

Merchants Despatch Transportation was established by American Express back when they were a transportation company.

Merchants Despatch - Wikipedia

I have a 33" hand forged caliper labeled "MDT Co." that I picked up at a local used store as a wall decoration in my shop. I wonder if it was made in the shop in the picture?
 
The part the smiths in the Shorpy photo are holding is for the frame of "arch bar" type trucks. The "truck" assembly has the wheels and axles and a railroad car typically has a truck at each end. The arch bar was part of the side frame of the truck and typically the springs bore against it.

I am also glad to hear that Williams-White is still in business. They've obviously moved with the times, using press frames made by welded fabrication rather than castings or forgings, and using hydraulics. I am sure they likely now incorporate a programmable logic controller (PLC) into the control systems on their presses so a precise movement of the press ram/platen can be made repetitively.

As for the old mechanical bull-dozer (sic, to use their terminology), it was likely a somewhat fearsome machine to use. Once the ram began its stroke, the die was cast (sorry for the pun). I experienced this same difference when using the old mechanical ironworkers vs the new generation of hydraulic ironworkers. Step on the pedal of a mechanical ironworker and the stroke is going to be made. With the new hydraulic ironworkers they can be "inched" a little at a time to allow jobs such as bending or positioning work for notching.

The bull-dozer was made to form work, so no need for the "inching" feature. On the other hand, once that ram was started on its stroke, it was going to bend or shape the work, and if the smiths holding the tongs were not familiar with what the movement of the stock would be, they were going for a ride or worse. It may have been a case of timing on the part of the smiths- position the work in the bull-dozer, hold it there with their tongs and clutch the bull-dozer in to begin its stroke. As soon as the ram and its die touched the work, either let go of the tongs or hold them with a much lighter and looser grip. I would think the bull-dozer had a clutch mechanism similar to a punch press- when the clutch was engaged, it allowed one stroke of the ram, then once the ram (and the crank) was returned to "top dead center", automatically disengaged the clutch. Either way, a smith had to have a good eye and good sense of timing and excellent reflexes to work on the bull-dozer.
 
Thanks JHOLLAND1,
What town or zip code is it in? 13K is a bit more than I was expecting but not out of the question.
Guessing aprox size to be 5 ft wide 5 ft tall and 10 ft long?
The one in the Shorpy picture looks like the rails are a bit wider apart, maybe a larger version?
Joe, I was just looking at the gearing trying to get an aprox size on this beast and am thinking the ram will move slowly. Flat belt or motor drives a small gear that turns a large gear in the center of machine, that in turn turns the two small gears on either side of machine that drive the drive wheel gears with the crank arms that push the ram. Am I seeing this right? Thank goodness for no safety guarding on the old picture to hide all the gear train. It seems to be getting its power from gear reduction rather than stored energy in a flywheel.
 
The shop I used to work in... they used to get a soft cover "book" (catalog) in the mail that was nothing but machinery for sale. I kept one of them and have it up at my shop. It's from the 1990's.

For something to read when I went to the bathroom, I'd take it in there with me and read through it. It was at least an inch thick... very few illustrations, except for some big ads for the machinery dealers themselves.

Every variety of machine you can think of was listed in there... and under each heading, the machines were listed in order of size.. small to large. I liked looking through the listings of the shears, brakes and lathes... it was fun to look through all the machinery to see just how large a machine these guys were stocking. I just couldn't imagine a shear that'd cut inch thick steel... brakes that'd bend that thick.... lathes with huge chucks and long beds... Boring mills that were humongous.

There were listings for other things, too... spot welders, transformers, heat treat ovens... you name it.

Then, I came across "bulldozers".. I had to get through shittin' and go ask the old head machinist what that was.. and he explained what they were and what they looked like. Like I said, there were not hardly any machine photos...

It was a neat catalog. Now, all that big stuff is probably razor blades, and everything is on the web.. .no printed catalog anymore....
 
Thanks JHOLLAND1,
What town or zip code is it in? 13K is a bit more than I was expecting but not out of the question.
Guessing aprox size to be 5 ft wide 5 ft tall and 10 ft long?
The one in the Shorpy picture looks like the rails are a bit wider apart, maybe a larger version?
Joe, I was just looking at the gearing trying to get an aprox size on this beast and am thinking the ram will move slowly. Flat belt or motor drives a small gear that turns a large gear in the center of machine, that in turn turns the two small gears on either side of machine that drive the drive wheel gears with the crank arms that push the ram. Am I seeing this right? Thank goodness for no safety guarding on the old picture to hide all the gear train. It seems to be getting its power from gear reduction rather than stored energy in a flywheel.


bull-dozer illustrated was one of a twin set---the big brother was the 20,000 lb version illustrated in shorpy pic---
it went to re-melt 15 yrs ago-- current owner secured this one within hours of similar fate

located zip 98532 500 ft from I-5
 
:D:D

Well I am now the new caretaker of this machine. It is here now and I will post a new machine thread when I get it up to the shop and snap a few pics. My little crane was barely able to lift it off the truck but it worked. Everything on it siezed solid but is all soaking in oil now. I went and visited it in person and we pulled off a cap and that shaft and bearing looked good so I am hopeful that it will just need a little disassembly and cleaning to get it back to work.
 
That Shorpy picture is amazing on many levels. A panoramic image made from 2 8x10 glass negatives, The detail, sharpeness and the depth of field before the focus drops off. The tilts and swings of a view camera made that happen, perfect for photographing factory and industrial sites. One photographer that I am familiar with, O. Winston Link, was a master at using the view camera for such things well after their popularity fell off and 35mm or 120 size film was all the rage. Modern digital cameras, and inkjet printing while amazing in there own right, cannot in my humble opinion(which is subject to speculation BTW) produce such fine an image as the 8x10 negative and a contact print on silver gelatin paper. Shorpy is full of such wonderful images. I love it
 
I agree with Warren about the quality and overall visual effect of the old photos. Lugging around a "dry plate" camera, tripod, glass plates, and flash powder were quite a job in itself. Nothing electronic or automatic about the old cameras. Not even a "light meter". It was up to the photographer to determine settings for lens aperature, and shutter speed was not even a setting with a spring that could close the shutter at a precisely measured time interval.

Almost 40 years ago, when I worked in Paraguay, I saw street photographers at work in Asuncion (the capital of Paraguay). In those days, the Paraguayan government was a dictatorship, and people were required to get permits with photos for all sorts of things. Poor people needing these permits or simply wanting a picture to send to a relative or as a keepsake, would use the street photographers. This was strictly a sunny weather operation. The street photographers had what, at first glance, appeared to be the old wooden cased "dry plate" cameras. On closer examination, their ingenuity became apparent. Someone had found that a modern 35 mm single-lens reflex camera body could be grafted onto a large wooden box. The box was, in actuality, a portable mini-darkroom. The photographer loaded a piece of film into the camera, then took the picture in the manner of using the camera, with the f-stop and all the other features. Once the pictures were snapped, the photographer stuck his arms into two black cloth sleeves with drawstrings or got under a black cloth draped off the back of the wooden box. The top of the box had a sliding shutter, and there was a piece of red plastic. Inside the box were pans of chemicals, and all that was needed to develop black and white film. The red plastic on top of the box made a "darkroom safe light" when the sliding shutter on top of the box uncovered it. Making the actual prints of the photos was done using natural sunlight. Drying of wet photographic paper was done by stringing up twine between anything handy. Most of the photographers worked in a square near the railroad station, and they did a brisk business with poor people who had come to the capital for reasons of getting a permit, or simply wanted to have a photo taken. I've never seen anything like those street photographers, before, or since.

Another memory is stirred up by this side-discussion as well. When I was a kid in Brooklyn, an occasional photographer would come walking down the main shopping street. This was in the mid 50's, and it was still very much a street of mom-and-pop stores rather than big chain stores. The photographer walked a pony with a fancy saddle, and had the camera on its tripod over his shoulder, and a box of photo supplies and order pad in a leather case hung off the saddle. He chose the shopping street as mothers with kids and especially grandmothers "from the old country" could be counted upon to be in abundance there. Grandmothers who had emigrated from Eastern Europe loved the idea of seeing their precious grandchildren on a pony. The photographer usually found a blank wall to use as his backdrop and would use dry plates in his camera. It was the era of cash transactions in the stores, and cash was paid to the photographer. The hardest part of his job, I think, was getting kids to sit still on the pony as for kids in Brooklyn, being up close to a live pony was quite a novelty.

Another memory of my early childhood was having a family picture taken. We went to a photographer's studio. He had the old dry plate camera with the wooden body, and got under a black cloth hood. We kids were told to stand absolutely still and smile and the usual "watch the birdie" and "say cheese" were said a few times. We were also threatened with things that, today would get a parent in the cross hairs of child protective services if we did not freeze in place and quit giggling and fidgeting. It seemed to take forever to get just the right picture. Class photos in grade school were much the same process, same type of camera, only we had the teachers threatening us with being hauled into the principal's office, notes home to parents, all the while we kids were giggling and gigging each other in the ribs to produce jumping and laughter and yelps. Photos were a production back then, and a bigger deal. We had "Brownie" Kodak cameras, and Mom had a huge double-lens reflex camera with a "ground glass" screen on top where she could see the image through a duplicate lens to the one the camera used. I was always fascinated by the way the two lenses were geared together to produce simultaneous images. Mom, not to malign her memory, was a perfectionist and had a short fuse for us kids not cooperating when she wanted to compose a photo. To us, it was a license to kid around, poke each other, make jokes and be kids. To Mom, it was just short of a capital offense, and we'd hear about the cost of film, the luxury of being able to take photos, about how rough the rest of the world had it and similar. Mom lived to be 100 and was taking digital photos at every opportunity and got computer savvy enough to send them and receive them.

I used to take a 35 mm camera with me on the overseas jobs, and this limited the number of pictures I could take. I would bring the exposed rolls of film to "Fotomat", and never knew, until I saw them a few days later, how my photos came out. I paid for errors in taking pictures- underxposed, overexposed, blurry, etc.
I am one of those people who is old enough to marvel at digital photography and continue to marvel as digital photography has been grafted into cell phones. To me, it is the stuff of science fiction and comic strips come into reality. It seems too simple and too easy ! My old 35 mm Konica camera has not been used in ages and the electronics in it gave up the ghost. It does not pay to repair, assuming I could find anyone to do the repair. It's been overseas with me, on jobs, up on the high steel, down inside hydro turbines, in ships' engine rooms, on motorcycle trips and all over with me and later on, with my wife as well. Too old a friend to toss, and it does not eat anything, so it sits in a closet with its extra lenses and flash unit. Being able to know what a photo will look like, and scratch it and try again with the digital cameras is incredible to me. No taking film in to be developed, no waiting, no additional charges for developing the film (unless a person wants real photos made from the digital images). To an old dinosaur like me, it is still amazing stuff, and I suppose I am somewhere in the ranks of those "grandmothers from the old country" marvelling at a photographer with his pony in that regard. I appreciate the Shorpy images all the more, knowing something of the times and people in some of those images, and knowing a bit about what it took to take those photos.
 
I'm probably not the only one here who lies awake regretting the things I did not buy.

One was a hydraulic bulldozer. It was reminiscent of a giant Acorn welding platen, easily 18 inches thick, probably 4 x 8 feet in plan. Sticking up in the middle was a roughly 4" x 8" steel finger, which was fixed in a double-ended ram in the interior of the table. A cylinder of maybe 12" bore swallowed each end of the ram.

Skinflint that I am, I tried to buy it without the hydraulic pump-and-tank unit, but the seller would not separate.

Not sure my Dodge 400 could have hauled it.
 








 
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