Genuine DECKEL color references

Hi you all !

I thought it would be a good idea to ask those among us who know the paint references for their DECKEL machines to post some pics and tell the rest of the world about the color codes.
It often happens that you first find a machine, and then some equipment with different paint scheme (something that the self-conscious home machinist CANNOT accept ), but it is not always easy to figure out wich color reference to use to get everything back in order. Hence this post.
I believe that such a database could be of great help for those of us with restoration projects, and could avoid some tragical mistakes such as the "John Deere green FP-1" Don located)

I suspect most of the genuine paintings used on euro-machinery belong to the RAL family, and here are the most commonly found colors I would like to put a name on :

For DECKEL machinery :
"Euro" green (just like my FP-1 or D. THOMAS's FP-4) : RAL 6011
Olive green (see ALFAGTA FP-2) :?
Dark grey : RAL 7016
Blue grey : ?

For SCHAUBLIN machinery
"Schaublin" blue : ?

For ACIERA mills
"Euro green" : RAL 6011




[This message has been edited by T. NGUYEN BINH (edited 01-31-2003).]

Thanks Tien for the good information...

I was talking with Alex A. awhile ago at an auction and he mentioned something about his believing there was a 'special' painting process. We didn't get to far into this, however. Clearly Deckel did a beautiful job finishing their products, though (however I have to say that my OEM green accessories don't seem to have the same quality of paint as my grey ones have).

I have had very good luck painting machinery (not Deckel... yet) with catalytic paints. The ChromaOne DuPont cyanacrolyte stuff is expensive but hardens very nicely (although it might have a bit too much sheen for most poeple).

Although cyanacrolyte paints are neat because they flash so quickly (i.e. before the bugs get on it), *read the label carefully*. It is basically superglue! You really need to use a supplied air respirator to spray the stuff safely... a carbon mask is not recommended. It also can be absorbed through muccus membranes (hmmm... spelling doesn't look right there), so you are supposed to have a full face mask too.

Anyhow, aside from the health issues, I am sold on the Cyanacrolyte paints! I believe many have had good luck with Sherwin Williams Industrial as well....

Alan

Alan,
Again I agree with you. I have seen overspray and even roller "bumps" on brand new, unused green Deckel items.
It would seem that at somepoint they changed their painting process for reasons unknown.

Interestingly, I have refinished a couple Deckel parts, and I will say that the original castings are much nicer than say... a Bridgport. Deckel parts have, and only need a thin layer of filler to smooth out the castings as opposed to most maker's *holes* and gaps which are filled like a Earl Shibe $50 Bondo job.

Quality stands... too bad they changed their paint process later on though.

Sean

Sean,

Since you are talking paint jobs and you seem to have a lot of experience, perhaps you would like to give us some tips. I once spent a great deal of time rebulding a Jones Shipman surface grinder and did what originally looked like a great paint job using a two part epoxy paint that they paint Mercedes cars with. The bondo and paint have peeled in certain areas and I suspect that although I cleaned the castings as well as possible the job was not good enough. Years ago I remebber using hot cleaning tanks that would take a whole engine block at Cummins diesel South Africa. Perhaps this is a route to go to ensure oil free castings? Any input would be appreciated.

Owen

Owen,
Sadly, I do not have a lot of experience painting machinery as I don't usually have a call to do it except for my personal machines or in special case where a customer would prefer it.

I have done a Bridgport and a couple other mills that I had intended to keep for myself, plus some small items, and now a couple Deckel items.
This is how I discovered the quality of the Deckel casts compared to a few other brands.

What I *have* learned, or at least I believe this to be true, is that it appears that the majory of paint failure or paint "cancer" is caused by the filler material absorbing coolant and oil and letting go.

For this reason, I do not use filler when I repaint something of my own. Instead, I use a ton of regular 1 part industrial enamel and bake it on over several hours (I have a large, digitally controlled oven).
If needed, I then sand that out and do another so it results in paint only, and paint baked into the pores.

This way, I feel more confident that the occasional ding wont compromise a whole area as we so often see on machine tools.

I've also noticed that if you get the part as clean as you can before baking, the paint seems to displace any oil left in the cast and bring it to the surface (meaning the part will have an oily film when done as opposed to air dried parts).

Wish I could be more help on this.
Sean

I have a 1928 Deckel model GO that appeared to be black orignally....anyone else see any black Deckels from back then?......also I tend to agree with Sean on just using enamel and building it up... the first few machines I did I puttied and made perfect.......now I just do a nice job with a brush.....

Sure would love a pic of that rivett

Thanks Sean!
I think that there is some good advise there. I considered the possibility that the paint failure on the Jones Shipman was due to oil and coolant absobtion by the filler as most of the peeling happened in areas where the edge of the filler was exposed. In the end it was a toss up between that idea and residual oil in the casting. Many thanks,

Owen

A couple of months ago I asked DMG about the colour code for my 1968 FP2. According to them the green is RAL 6011 and the grey-green (ALFAGTA FP-2?) RAL 7005. The RAL 7005 is fairly close to the original colour, but more neutral grey.

Bjorn

sean... the Deckel GO is now painted grey like a bunch of my other stuff. The original black paint had been mostly covered over and was in to bad of shape to restore so it had to go. if you still want I'll send you pictures sometime. One of the cool things about this machine is I am only the 3rd owner and it came with all it's original paper work which is now 75 years old.....