Don't try this on your Bridgeport kids!

AlfaGTA · Nov 8, 2007

Working on saving a 1914 Peugeot. Car ran at Indy in 14'. Lots of work to do here and i am finally getting back to this project.
Anyhow i had the block on the machine and located to give average truth with the valve guide bores on teh exhaust side. Corrected teh guide bores for angle and position. Wanted to cut some surfaces as a reference to allow replication of the setup later on in the project.
Needed to make the platform for the magneto true and flat....a bit tough to get to with the block setup as shown, soooooooo:

Shown is my trusty FP4NC tooled with some German tooling.
This is the Sandvik "Capto" system. This stuff is magic , and i am adding to it whn i can.

It is a modular systen that allows a standard base taper adapter and add on sections to give the length you nee.

The end tool in this case is a blank i bought where the end is not heat treated and machinable. The opposite end is finished in the "trigon" spline and hardened.
In this case i fashoned a fly cutter that takes small insert tool holders. (also Sandvik)

Showing the total setup, jsut beginning the cutting . Material is cast iron, adn the inserts i am using are high positive graded for aluminum, but they work well here to reduce the cutting pressure.

Final photo showing the area alongside the block.
Total reach is just over 17" from the holder flange. Running at 400RPM and no chatter.
Cheers Ross

rklopp · Nov 8, 2007

That is remarkable! Think about how you'd get laughed out of the shop if you chucked up a bar in a lathe with that amount of overhang and tried to simply face the end. Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do!

Sean S · Nov 9, 2007

Ross, um......that's just weird

Sean

William R · Nov 9, 2007

Its always fun to see what you're up with those great photos of the great green machine! Thanks Ross!! What is the "Capto" system?

William R

Andy Evans · Nov 9, 2007

Wow! I know sometimes we don't try something because our intuition tells us it just won't work, and sometimes it does. What odds did you give this before you tried it?
Andy

Milacron · Nov 9, 2007

Re Capto...never heard of that one. Graflex and Komet are more common stackable type...I've got a Graflex set with no. 40 taper "master" and Komet in no. 50.

rklopp · Nov 9, 2007

I think you can even order high-end MCs with Capto spindle noses in lieu of HSK or BIG Kaiser.

AlfaGTA · Nov 9, 2007

IMHO the Sandvik Capto is the best quick tooling system on the market. It is avaliable for turning centers and it can make a tool change in a turret almost instant.
I first bought this stuff to do long bores in engine cylinder blocks. Many of our motr jobs are on engines that do no have removable cylinder heads, so a blind bore is pretty normal here. Use the Capto setup with a precision boring head at the end of the correct size....can remove and reinstall the boring set from the spindle and repeat within .0003" on the diameter every time at 8-10 " extension.....I love this stuff!

The new Capto boring heads take a cartridge type of tool and holder that allows both normal and back boring by simply changing the cartridge....

I use their boring system to flycut the floors of roots style superchargers. Enables me to reach into a 9" deep housing and face the back surface. Can use the boring feature to fine adjust the finished profile so i can get the floor exactly to meet the sides..
Doing repair work IMHO is the hardest class of machine work..never get to start with a flat rectangular anything and the datums are always in question...having tooling that can do difficult work is a real plus in my world.

Cheers Ross

AlfaGTA · Nov 9, 2007

For some additional pictures of teh Capto systen in action see:
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/6/1662.html?#000002

Using the horizontal spindle to finish bore the main bearing diaphram registers on a Miller 151 marine engine.
Might note that one shot shows use of the Wohlhaupter boring head. This is fitted (has 1" straight shank) to a 1" welden style end mill holder. (more Capto tooling) By the way i prefer the Wohlhaupter head with a plain stright shank...use a short end mill holder on the CNC and a 1" collet in my FP3 or FP2's ...one head fits all.
Cheers Ross

Milacron · Nov 10, 2007

IMHO the Sandvik Capto is the best quick tooling system on the market

I've never used Capto, so you could be right. But have you used similar Graflex (French) or Komet (German) systems so that you know for sure Capto is "best" ? :confused:

bryan_machine · Nov 10, 2007

Is this the same capto that is offered as the spindle interface on Okuma Multus machines? (The index B or contouring B milling spindle?)

AlfaGTA · Nov 10, 2007

D:
Ok i will qualify my statement...I have not used the other systems you mention, but here is the basis for my opinion:
First off the Capto works very well. In any application i have needed,it always preformed to or above expectations.
Second the Capto system is avaliable in many versions from milling machine holders to rectangular blocks that fit a lathe turret to quick change hydraulic holder blocks as well as round shank holders for boring bar mounts, "A" and "D" spindle mounts as well. System is useable for both mill and lathe operation and it is also featured for the Intigrex system ....A number of high end machine makers now offer the Capto as an option fitted to their turning machines on the turrets.

Third and most important...It is avaliiable for almost anything they make (and the variety is quite large) from your local Sandvik dealer. I can get virturaly anything they make including repair and spare parts overnite at my door by 8:00 if i order by 4:00 P.M.the day before. Since this stuff is quite expensieve and since my work often demands unusual setups, if i need a special holder or extension i can have it the next morning and that mens i only have to inventory the stuff i actually need, and use.

So perhaps if thinking about the entire package , support included, my opinion might be right on the mark....
Cheers Ross

AlfaGTA · Nov 10, 2007

Bryan:
Yes i believe so!
Cheers Ross

Tony McPhee · Nov 10, 2007

Wow Ross that is impressive and what a beautifull bit of foundry work that 1914 block is. Looks like a mighty long stroke!
I used a similar approach ('Cheapo'?), to bore the crankcase mouths on my dragbike to take a new billet block with larger liners. I didn't fancy removing the long barrel/head studs fitted by Mr. Honda as the casting was already slightly swollen around the threads.
Using a small UK made Arrand boring head, which has a female thread in the back of the body to take various shanks. I made up a simple very long extension to go between this and the 40INT shank for my turret mill. Total overhang 10" and it worked a treat.
The liners didn't though, but that is another rather sad story.

Milacron · Nov 10, 2007

Ross, fair enough. But have you investigated Komet with regards to the points you mention ? They have USA office based near Chicago I think. All I know is I run across Komet and Graflex at auctions more than any other make, but perhaps Capto is the "up and coming" new kid with some advantages I wasn't aware of ?

Or maybe the Komet and Graflex versions are so bad as to cause whole companies to go bankrupt and thus the auctions ?

AlfaGTA · Nov 10, 2007

D:
Can't say with any real authoirity, i was pretty much shooting from the hip on this one. Got hooked into the Capto because it was avaliable through my nice Sandvik dealer. Since i am pretty hooked on the Sandvik stuff in general i just kept giving them money...Have not had any reason with the exception of sticker shock to ever re-think the move on the Capto stuff. Think the Komet stuff is pretty nice , don't know anything about Greyflex..but i have some doubts about a tool system that includes "Flex" in their name.

....As to being teh new kind on the block..I have been using the Capto for about 8 years i think, and before that Sandvil made a system known as "Coro". Vwey similar, but lacked the "trigon" poly spline jointing system. That joint is pretty amazing...very strong and accurate. Tollerences must be pretty tight on the mating parts as the taper takes up as the flat faces meet....
Cheers Ross

Brian · Nov 10, 2007

I haven't used the Capto system... but I did have my FP1 tooled up with the Komet stuff. It is just a tight tolerance round bore, a flat face, registration pin and a tapered faced setscrew acting on a thru plunger to lock the bore and face tight to each other when tightened. Effective.... but.... I highly doubt it has the rigidity of the Capto system if it has a trigon shape and tapered fitment.

I actually sold off all the Komet stuff when I acquired a Royal R8 Easy Change system and modified the master to fit my MT4 spindle.

Milacron · Nov 11, 2007

It does sound superior to the Komet system, although I suspect functional differences on a Deckel mill would be nil. But in high speed critcal balance situations, the Capto does sound superior.

As to Graflex, been so long since I used it can't remember the coupling. I'm thinking it's more complex than the Komet but I doubt it's superior to the Capto.
Capto system coupling features page

heartlnd · Nov 11, 2007

i'm using the original kaiser system and it is as good as the capto if not better.capto is just a modified copy of the kaiser system anyways.

Milacron · Nov 12, 2007

Kaiser...damn, forgot all about that one...

Don't try this on your Bridgeport kids!

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