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The big question: Who do YOU think will win the Presidential Election?

Richard Rogers

Titanium
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Location
Bentley, Louisiana
No right or wrong answers to give. Even if you aren't voting for the one you actually think will win, then maybe expound upon why your man will lose, and over what issues.

I/you could slam either candidate for something or another, and I've/you've probably heard all that before, so I'm going to spare everyone from that. I ask others to return the favor.

Just objective reasons why the election will turn out the way you predict--that's it. As factually and reasonably thought out as possible, I'd really like to hear from the group.

Richard
 
The citizens of an unnamed 6 lettered middle east country will win, and the citizens of USA will loose.

Just an independent observation from 'up north', based on the recent comments and statements from both socalled 'candidates'.
 
Toss a coin up in the air.That's about the best indicator that I've seen so far. And no,I won't get into a longwinded dicussion on this subject on this board.Ken
 
Richard, you pose the question but don't give the answer yourself that you are seeking from everybody else.
Are you just sitting on the fence? ;)

Les
 
the whole election process is just to appease the masses.
the whole world scene is orchrastrated by powers greater than the united states. if you remember the ex prime minister of canada kim campbell after she was elected she made the statement that she didnt know here was going to be a recession in the next 6 months, she didnt last long because she let the cat out of the bag...jim
 
I think Kerry has a better chance than what most pollsters think.

I have heard some very negative talk concerning Mr. Bush. A good bit of it has been from people who usually vote Republican.

I was very disappointed that in the 2,000 election, both parties ran what I believe to be weak candidates.

Mr. Bush, by reason of his incumbency is a strong candidate this year. I don't perceve Kerry to be a strong candidate. If Kerry wins, and I think his chances are fairly good, then it will be as a result of votes cast against the incumbent. There will be plenty of these.

The President is not a monarch and the government and the economy aren't able to siwng freely around as if they were mounted on a turret.

I am not expecting much change regardless of who wins this election.

We're stuck.
 
Les,

Sure, I've got my views. Just keeping them out of it.

It's not about views--mine or anyone else's. I'm asking about people's predictions of the outcome of the election. Who do you think will win?---not whether the winner was your personal choice.

I've got a major decision about my career and it will definitely depend on who wins. Still, I'll keep that one out of it too. The only way to ask the question, and not make it "loaded" is to keep my input neutral. Not that I am neutral on this one--again, asking for whatever someone has to offer.

Richard
 
Kerry by a wide margin.

By this time next year, housing and the stock market will have crashed, gas will be $4/gal, Iraq and the rest of the mid-east will be so f**d up today's situation will look like a walk in the park. DC will be in total gridlock with the house and senate fighting the administration every step, both sides putting all their effort into useless finger-pointing, accomplishing nothing and blaming each other.

The reason Kerry wins is there are just too many republicans aghast at the Iraq war, how we got there and its fallout.

Balance that with the terrifying idea of a figure like Kerry being president, but for most folks on the fence the war is the overriding issue.
 
There is still a lot of time before the election. Anything can happen. I'm not going to make a prediction.

I'm not happy with many things Bush has done or failed to address.
Kerry is unfit to be Commander-in-Chief.

Les
 
It's a toss up IMO. I'm looking forward to tonight's debate. If zillions of younger votes, from 18-28 get registered and vote then I think Kerry will win. If it's the regular party faithful, then the Republicans seem better organized.

Here's my take on the issues that matter most to me:

1) Job creation. Neither candidate has much impact on this, despite what they say. Bush's tax cuts that went mostly to the affluent were ineffecient. Kerry won't create many jobs by trying to create incentives to keep jobs here and disincentives to move them abroad. The most important issue for me, but neither candidate is really addressing it IMO. 0-0 tie IMO.

2) Energy policy. This is a year-by-year disaster for us, including innovative manufacturing ckompanies. Read today's editorial by Thomas Friedman for a summary (google "Thomas Friedman" and "Battle of the Pump". Read this!

3) Balanced budget. I wouldn't normally put this so high, but both candidates have been over committing and under delivering in an attempt to win votes. Good jobs is job#1, because that funds everything else. Right after creating more jobs and wealth, we need to go on a spending diet. Bush took the world on, underfunded the war, and has since underfunded "no child left behind" and most everything else. Now it's land a man on Mars, because polls say that would be cool. The states are hurting and, in turn, putting the screws to local governments. Kerry is making promises he can't fund. Looking at actual results, the best fiscal policy we've seen in recent years was Clinton (fiscal conservative, social liberal). He made reducing welfare costs a priority, etc. The worst has been Bush Jr. External events (first the economy, then 911, then especially choosing to go to war in Iraq) have naturally dramatically affected this. If Kerry wins, I'm heartened that his economic advisors come from the Clinton balance-the-budget camp. Maybe he can hold off unrealistic spending from the left of the left? I haven't figured out which party will actually do a better job of funding the real essentials, but am convinced that the old Republican vs. Democrat rules of thumb no longer apply. Maybe a draw, when all is said and done. I'd take Clinton back in a heartbeat on this issue.

4) Open and transparent government. This as much as anything has me disturbed. There has been a long tradition in all administrations of seeking the best opinions on both sides of an issue before coming to a decision. That's one of the things I liked, incidentally, about the assault weapons discussion --- for the most part people with strongly held opposing views were willing to listen to each other. This administration has largely gone on gut feel and preconceived notions (oil is good, Saddam is enemy #1, a trickle down economy works, etc.) dissing almost anyone who disagrees worldwide. Within the administration, those who disagree have been fired (like the guy who estimated what the Iraq war would really cost) or worse (e.g. exposing CIA agents whose spouses disagree). Outside the administration they're called unpatriotic, weak, etc. and subject to personal attacks. I see a huge difference between Bush Sr. (reasonably engaged, smart, willing to listen) and Bush Jr. (lacking leadership inside his own cabinet, not very keen on analyzing things, unwilling to listen to anyone who disagrees with his gut feel).

To use a shop floor analogy, the kind of government I like best is one that just goes ahead and efficiently does its job 27x7, but with very clear warning lights to wake me up when some part of goverment goes wrong. Sadly, I'd rather have a slightly inefficient administration than one that goes around turning off or obscuring all the warning lights. For me, this is a plus for an anyone-but-Bush Jr. administration.

5) Support for small businesses. Both parties pay lip service to the companies that create the vast majority of new jobs in this country, but neither is serving them well. The current administration is mostly serving our very largest (think Enron, Halliburton, etc.) companies when it comes to tax breaks and the like. A Kerry administration might be mostly serving the workers in these larger companies. Small businesses need a more sensible regulatory environment. A centrist Republican, like Gov. Arnold here in California, is probably best for that. They also need better educated workers and affordable health care and insurance, which Kerry seems more likely to deal with. Since any real progress for small businesses requires bi-partisan support I'm not hopeful until we see both parties move more to the center.

5) Health care. Anyone who thinks that our current system isn't broke is delusional IMO. We spend more than other countries, cover fewer of our citizens, and fall far down the list in almost every objective measurement of health. We're a fauly high tech 12 cylinder gas-guzzler that's being ourperformed by 4 cylinder healthcare engines in other countries. An efficient health care system would help keep jobs in this country and healthier workers would add maybe 5% (a huge amount) to national productivity. A Kerry administration would do more to shake things up towards effective reform.

6) Terrorism threat #1. Nuclear proliferation has the greatest potential for mass destruction. I'm still angry about 9/11. Yet two thousand people killed in this tragedy pale in comparison to what could happen if we let nuclear weapons get in the hands of terrorists. The Bush administration has been incompetent in dealing with the real threats (Korea, Iran, etc.) A Kerry administration might do a bit better.

7) Domestic terrorism threat #2. The good news is that we're better insulated from these threats than, say, Spain. The bad news is that a repeat of a 9/11 through some other means would be quite easy for determined terrorists. The general level of incompetence in getting a single database of terrorists, addressing threats to our ports, etc. is mind boggling. We would have lost WWII if the same complacency prevailed.

8) Domestic terrorism threat #3. More people will die from crime and gang violence than soldiers we lose in Iraq. Most everyone on this board is far more likely to die from a random bullet through the head in this country than abroad. Where's the solution for this? Right now, most communities around me are cutting police and random gang violence is increasing. I haven't heard either candidate address this; maybe in tonight's debate?

9) Domestic and international terrorism threat #4 - drugs. Drugs drive maybe half the problems above. They have also made places like Columbia and (once again) Afghanistan a mess for any regular citizen. Taking the profit out of drugs would go a long way making the US and the world a safer place -- and it's more a US problem (we're the source of drug profits) than most any other country. I don't know the answer to this, but think we need to get the facts and make rational decisions. The mayor of Chicago, for example, said maybe we should decriminalize marijuana use and focus on other crimes. Maybe what we want to see is a situation where drugs were as cheap to buy as Drano (no profits in illegal sales) and just as attractive to injest.

10) Terrorism threat #5 - the wars in Iraq, Afganistan, Palestine, etc. Just about any objective measurement of the situation would say that extreme fundamentalist Moslems are creating terrorists (defined as willing to blow themselves up in order to kill one or more infidels), aided by progaganda against our present policies, than we are killing. If insanity is doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results, we're insane. Almost no example of covert regime change we've ever participated in (dozens of cases) has come out looking good a decade later. So, I'm sadly not real optimistic about Iraq regardless of whether Bush "stays the course" or Kerry plays Lyndon Johnson to Vietnam. Before the war, I thought we should keep (increase) spending a fraction of the present $200 billlion to contain Saddam economically. The present administration has made colossal miscalculations (back to the point about not listening to anyone else) and neither party is going to acquit us with honor. What's really needed in all these places (Palestine to Iraq) is to withdraw funding from terrorist states (see energy policy), support moderates, and keep extremists on the run, without money, life, or visions of heaven with virgins to rely upon.

11) Separation of church and state. The founding fathers had it right when they insisted upon separation of church and state. Matters of government can be left to objective analysis and discussion. Will a new road ease traffic or create traffic? Will an investment in broadband nationwide having a high ROI for the nation or be a waste of money? Who should get a tax cut to jump start the economy? Reasonable people can disagree on the answers, just like reasonable people disagreed if the earth was flat or round, if brain waves existed or not, if there would every be a market for personal computers, and if the moon was made of cheese. Eventually, we can get answers most folks agree upon. Religious faith is to discuss, prove, or disprove. And, as the founders suggested, it needn't matter. Folks were worried when Kennedy (a Catholic) was running about his faith. Liberman (a Jew) also raised some questions. I'm much more worried when the current president confides that God gave him the confidence to invade Iraq. Geez, that's the same argument the mullahs are using. No wonder they see this as Crusades part II.

12) Stem cell research. This is part of #11. I understand and respect the faith-based issues. But I also remember that it was our churches that thought Galileo was a heretic. The potential benefits in terms of healthier lives and new jobs outweigh the religious issues in my PERSONAL opinion. To those who disagree -- how about you go to heaven on your beliefs and let me live a bit longer before going to hell on my beliefs?

13) Fringe issues of like homosexual marriage. Fringe, because it doesn't much affect me personally. These are fringe issues, just for me I realize, because they don't affect me much.

Bottom line? Bush is a likeable guy. People respect someone who has the strength of their convictions. Kerry is a little less likeable, more thoughtful, maybe even sometimes paralyzed by weighing the alternatives before picking a path forward. However, at this point "just plunging ahead" is getting us in so much trouble I'd welcome a change. I don't have high expectatons that either candidate can turn things around in four years, but desperately hope we address some real issues like jobs, energy policy, support for small businesses, efficient and effective health care, and the truly gravest threats of "terrorism."
 
Anybody read Shadow War by Miniter?
.Security is my No.1 issue.....
.
.
BUSHPASS.jpg

KERRYFUMBLE.jpg

HUMOR..
http://www.jibjab.com/
 
just my 2 cents.I cant believe that this is the best we came up with to chose from. :(
 
Just an observation: if Bush succeeds with his plans, he will have isolated Iran. Look at a map and note Afghanistan and Pakistan to the East, virtually Russia to the North, Turkey and Iraq to the West, and two bodies of water to the South. Is it not the objective in war to surround your enemy? I think, IMHO, that Bush is far smarter than he is given credit for and Kerry is an opportunistic fool. Once isolated Iran will be easier to deal with and North Korea should be getting the message for Bush is surrounding them also. Now with the major supporters of terrorism either conquered or isolated the Bin Ladins of the world should be easier to deal with.
 
i would agree with your statement but our president assures that we have no designs on the oil in iraq.
i didnt realize until the debate 10-9-04 that george bush is the tree hugging candidate, i thought that was ralph nader, the greatest enviormental persident since thomas jefferson.
im also glad that he wouldnt nominate a supreme court justice that voted for the dred scott decision, probably be hard to find a 198 yr. old lawyer anyway...jim
 
I usually don't participate in political stuff
but I had to chime in to thank PeteM for taking
the time to post up that huge comment, which
is about 100% exactly what I would have said.

The only addition I would have made would be
to suggest that the budget deficit issue is
pretty hard to ignore, it's a *huge* problem.

And I had to laugh long and hard about toolmaker
jim's comment. Bush opened up his mouth and
stuck Dredd Scott's foot into it last night.

Heck, I never even knew that the main problem
with our national forests were, they just happen
to be under-harvested!! Somebody get that
man a chain saw.

Jim
 
To echo Jim Rozen, I also think PeteM's post was extremely well thought out and written.

This will be my 9th presidential election to participate in. I've voted for Republicans the last 8 times, but somehow there's just not enough spin-doctoring available today to make me see W and the band of arrogant and all-knowing in a positive light. Looks like Kerry will get my vote as the lesser of two evils, but I really don't see anything great coming out of a Kerry presidency either.

We keep seeing polular polls indicating the race is close. Has anyone seen any state by state polls that might indicate how either candidate is doing in the electoral vote race? Seems that's the only race that counts, but I've not seen anything yet indicating who's ahead by that measure.
 
all joking aside i get so exasperated at bush continually using the same cliches' and one liners. a little origionality would be refreshing he seems to think that he is funny as all get out i dont share that view.
kerry seems to be more thought out and from my point of view has won both debates but keep in mind he is a very smart politiction maybe thats what we need instead of a good ole boy.
i dont feel that bush is sincere about worrying about my position in the grand scheme of things, kerry on the other hand seems to want to follow in the fdr,lbj democratic mindset of involving govt. more in our lives.
as one noted in a post israel will be the winner im not jewish but i do think that we should stay on the side of israel, if we dont we will be in a greater world of hurt. they are the man in the mideast and i see no one knocking them off.
the bottom line is unless bush already has osma bin laden captured and is holding him for "the october surprise" kerry will win.
if bush somehow pulls off a capture he will win.
either way i will lose because i end up paying more for less,...jim
 
""The one who votes decides nothing. The one who counts the vote decides everything."

Joseph Stalin


DUBUQUE COUNTY, IOWA 1996

The people of Dubuque County, Iowa, ran a completely open and honest election. The county's 41 precincts caucused in 41 classrooms at two local high schools. The participants in each classroom voted on easily read paper ballots, and the ballots were counted at the front of the classroom with candidate representatives welcome to observe. Representatives from competing factions in each classroom then ran their results down the hall to the county chairman, who waited with a cell phone. The county chairman invited each group to stay as he phoned in the results-just to be sure he did not make a mistake. The results from all 41 precincts in the county were then posted on a chalkboard where representatives from the various campaigns could double check them. Everything checked out: Buchanan 870, Dole 339, Keyes 245, the rest far behind. (A copy of the official tally sheets from all 41 precincts in Dubuque County are on file.)

But where had that GOP county chairman, as well as all the rest of the local Iowa Republican caucus leaders, been directed to call in his results? To the GOP State Committee? To the Iowa Secretary of State? No, to VNS in New York City. This means that the GOP state party had willingly abdicated its responsibility by turning over the vote tabulation to a media-controlled service-VNS. Indeed, in a letter to an outraged constituent dated June 6, 1996, Senator Charles Grassley admits: "Since 1988, the Iowa Caucuses have operated under the system whereby the precinct gives its results to the county, which, in turn passes the information on to the 'official' reporting outlet, the Voter News Service (VNS). The State Republican Party has no role in this reporting process and no independent verification of the votes. VNS is the first entity to get the results and then it reports them." (The Senator is wrong on one point. In the vast majority of cases where precincts in a county are not meeting at one or two centralized locations, each precinct caucus leader calls directly to VNS in New York City.)

So how did VNS handle its stewardship in Dubuque County during the 1996 GOP Iowa Caucuses? Badly, and perhaps criminally. By the next morning, only ten hours later, VNS had sent false (or falsified) results back to the Associated Press to be published all over Iowa. Buchanan had "lost" 13 percent of his vote in Dubuque County as it passed through the VNS and AP offices on its way back to the *Des Moines Register.* The AP reported that Buchanan had garnered only 757 votes-down from the 870 he had actually received. If VNS shorted Buchanan even four percent on average across Iowa, then Patrick J. Buchanan, not Senator Robert Dole, won the Iowa Caucuses.

Calls from multiple witnesses to GOP state headquarters and VNS brought arrogant, insulting responses. There was no interest in seriously discussing, let alone correcting, the "mistake." VNS admitted nothing. Iowa GOP headquarters insisted that they were in VNS's hands, and had to wait for the "official results"-which, as of Labor Day, had still not been published. Copies of the February 13, 1996, *Des Moines Register,* the *Cedar Rapid Gazette,* and a final fax made to the various campaigns from VNS are on file. A comparison of these sources against the official tally proves that 13 percent (or 113 votes) disappeared from the Buchanan column overnight.


So, does anybody wonder why we get stuck with tweedle-dee and tweedle-dum elections?


Steve
 
I don't know who will win, but some things I do know.

1. Kerry's wife is a nightmare waiting to happen.

2. Hillary Clinton wins if Bush wins (it's his last term) so I do know who she's voting for.

3. Edwards is way to inexperienced to even remotely be president should anything happens to Kerry if he wins.

4. The war in Iraq is a nighmare waiting to explode.

5. The whole election process looks like two immature children fighting in a school yard.

6. The USA looks like a bunch of fools to the whole world, and they are loving it. (especially the French)

7. While we squabble China grows stronger how long before they flex their military muscles?

8. Four more years of the Clinton's in office and it's "Egg McMagnum" time for me.

9. Bush wins and things stay somewhat stable for the next four years, with slow growth in the economy. Kerry wins and the whole apple cart gets dumped on the ground. (I'm not saying what I would like to see happen here)

10. A political system that panders to the poor and stupid in order to get elected was bound to fail, I'm just wondering why its taken this long?

11. All political systems are corrupt!
 








 
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