Paul Benoit
You certainly seem to have personalized and read a whole lot more into my post than the summary of the points made. In response to the original question, I noted: 1.) it is possible to hand scrape ways into alignment and a 9” SB is a reasonable project, but it needs to be approached with a well thought out plan. 2.) read Harry Bloom’s current article in HSM about restoring a lathe for an excellent presentation of the work and process you might be getting into. 3.) obtain, read, and keep handy for reference, Machine Tool Reconditioning to clarify the methods, equipment, and inspection procedures.
Succeeding posts made the same points, but is seems my presentation somehow hurt your feelings.
You surely must know that contrary to your suggestion, I am not a “life long machinist”. I am a woodworker who didn’t have any money for machine tools, back in the late 70’s and early 80’s when even junk was still quite valuable. One of the best things that happened to me was that a guy named Andy Lofquist introduced me to scraping, and somewhat to patternmaking. This was like opening up the world to me! Now the possibilities of obtaining machine tools, and producing some forms of work, depended ever more strongly on any abilities I could develop, not on how big my wallet was(n’t!). Naturally, along the way, there was the hard lesson, eventually, that some projects are too big to take on. It was so difficult to get what skills that I do have, that it always seems to me that if I could do it, certainly anybody can. Perhaps this is a form of pride, but it is not my intention when posting. I put my stuff up with the hopes that life long machinists will comment, critique, and challenge me to improve. If you don’t put your projects up for public review, how will you know if you are working in a vacuum or not? I like to see lots of projects and machines by others. It is the best way to learn. In posting pictures, I sometimes hope to encourage others to post more pictures by doing my part, but perhaps that is a mistaken sense of importance on my part, and I will try to restrain the urge if it is offending people.
To address your specific allegations:
“….Stephen Thomas,
I have been insulted by you and your arrogant self loving, gay admiring attitude for the third time now….”
I do not know what you are referring to. My memory of your recent posts is the one on Plexiglass/Lucite that was very informative for me, though I may not have commented. The other was on machinery and flow organization in a shop which hit the nail on the head, and I said so. I do remember that when you first came on this list, we disagreed about the tolerances for knife projection in a wood planer. You stated a fact, I rebutted, at which point the debate devolved into someone making insinuating comments about my integrity and impugning my character and honesty. This is what happened above. It is not an insult to be wrong. But you resorted to insinuations and name calling, and that is insulting
“…My advice was for a novice lathe buyer, not a lifetime skilled machinist….”You state your accuracy in 1 ten thousandths of an inch. I doubt you can even measure that tolerance repetitively,…”
Read what I wrote, not what you wish I had written for your purposes. A new grade B surface plate was leveled on the table and indicated with a “tenths” reading Federal indicator “all over” the travels. (several times) All data in any test is subject to interpretation for conditions noted, including in this case the grade of the surface plate used. But the report is factual and the data repeated.
“…. but here is my challenge to you. I have a 1956 Rockford 16" lathe that has gouges and a dip in the 10' ways. If you want to hand scrape the 10' ways that are 9" apart to a tolerance of the 2 to 3 ten thousandths of an inch you brag about in your post, in the 12 hours I would have in shipping it to the Indy grinder (90 minutes out - 9 hours machining-90 minutes back) I'll give you the $1500 they quoted….”
This is a bogus challenge on your part and in no way equates to anything I posted. I have skills and tools to work up to about 5’ way length. I work to please myself and periodically put things “out there” for a reality check, feed back, and constructive critique. I owe you absolutely nothing.
“….Not only that, I'll admit in this forum that you are the best machinist in the world…..”
PL, you completely misunderstand my reasons for posting. I do put my work up for critique on this forum as time and interest permits. I am surprised and disappointed that it is seen in the light you take it. I have some good skills in a few areas related to woodworking, and am working to develop in machining wherever possible.
“……I have machinists that worked their entire careers at Cincinnati Milacron that will measure your accuracy. Professional scrapers by trade. I can bring in a couple of retired GEAA engineers and an Air Force QC compliance officer to back up their findings….”
You have important and influential friends.
“… I'll deliver the bed to you in Virginia or Md. and you have 12 hours to finish to 2 -3 ten thousandths of an inch in all 3 planes. Do you want to take the bet, or just keep spewing your "I'm better than you" RUBBISH….”
You do misinterpret my intent, but perhaps my presentation causes others to see me as prideful as well, so I will try to examine that. I don’t think I am better, my excitement is that is some areas “I can keep up!” & “I can do this and I don’t have the high dollar machine!” or even pretty machines. Or even the “right” machine. I’ll try to reflect more before posting. It would be delightful to have a tour, and first hand education in some of the facilities you mention.
“….I'll put the money in a third parties hand. You will do the same and if you cannot do what you say you can I will expect a full apology on this forum and you agree to never post here again. I'll do the same….”
Now you are being petulant and self referential. So far, you have created a factual interchange as an opportunity to sling personal invective at me. There may be some important reminders for me personally to examine. You have thrown a lot of mud, but I have bad days, too. You don’t need to make an apology, and I won’t either.
“….We could even have Forrest Addy supervise the measuring process and report to HSM the results. If you don't accept the challenge I will take this as an admission on your part that you are full of shit and can't back up your big mouth claims…..”
Forrest Addy is a hero of mine; although I do have the irritating habit of rabidly challenging him over matters of “free speech in the interest of harmonious relations”. That is, I routinely suggest that it is worthwhile to have spews like yours delivered uncensored. I feel it clears the air and is worthwhile for getting to truly know a person. As mentioned before, I have bad days too.
Your mention of HSM in this context is interesting. They have vetted quite a bit of my scribbles in the past. Poor Joe Rice suffered through 12 or 13 installments of my stuff. In retrospect, I have little doubt it will please your predjudices to hear I realize now he was a saint to deal with me, and I owe him a lot. The grinder project described above was originally intended by me to be a follow-up to the 5 part “Shape & Scrape” series in Dec 1997 - Aug 98. But the photography (5 or 6 rolls) came out really bad, and I never proposed it to them. Once the grinder was together, it was too dauting to take apart again to “stage” the photography. I have always wondered what a neutral disinterested “pro” would make of the (S & S) series, and would truly be interested to hear. It’s on public record. Have at it! It was an early effort, though I am satisfied that a lot of useful information was conveyed. But no doubt, there are criticisms to hear, and lessons to learn. I’d like to learn them. Hearing I was wrong can sting, but I can always grow and move on.
No doubt you would find it further evidence of overweaning pride on my part, but since you raised the question, I am also prepared to post to this site, as much as is useful, of the photodocumentary of the scraping and inspection process on the grinder above. Again, no intent to step on toes. From what I hear from you, I have probably been a bit too much forward lately. Things have been in a state personally where I do a lot of pushing everyday without much concrete sense of accomplishment at the end of the week. Perhaps that is why I am taking refuge in revisiting machining projects that went well, at least for my purposes.
”….Peter H, your point about alignment is exactly why I sent the job out, if my passion is not restoring, but working the lathe, why spend my hours on specific accuracy fo reconditioning when I can otherwise be spinning the the spindle, which is what I like to do?...”
Well, then here’s a challenge for you: Post some of your projects. Help us learn to extend skills rather than limit them. Post some progress on your lathe and show how you have planned the rehab. Don’t wait until it is all shiny new and only tell us how much you spent.
“…. Harry Bloom has skills that no novice can even comprehend….”
Not quite true. What is impressive is that Harry Bloom is willing to make the serious effort it takes to write and article, and show the process of his projects, so that the rest of us can learn. He is helping novices grow and understand possibilities and he makes it accessible.
smt
