Machine painting.

Charles Dolan · Jun 4, 2006

Do any of you have any hints or sugesstions about painting a machine. I am in the middle of repainting my SAG14 whilst dismantled and must confess myself less than thrilled with the task. I have started to use and industrial polyurethane prepared by one of our local paint manufacturers. I seems to be adequate, Does anyone have an opion against poly.? Any help would be most appreciated.

Charles.

Nick Alexander · Jun 5, 2006

Hi Charles, I am just about at the stage of re-assembling my SAG 14 after having repainted it. I have painted it in a 2 part epoxy. I have found in the past that 1 part paints don't really have much scratch resistance, whereas the 2 part epoxies are very tough. They are a pain to apply, because you have to mix in the right proportions, and get the resulting quantity right; so not too much, because they have a pot life of 2-3 hours, so any more just gets wasted. I used a 2 part filler to smooth out the worst of the bumps. The epoxy gives a very good smooth finish that fills in most brush strokes, so with careful application you can get a close to spray finish. It is a lengthy task and has taken several months of stolen time to complete, but I have just completed the final coat. Now there is the process of cleaning up any overpainting and re-assembling. I will post pictures once it is completed. I did a fair amount of stripping down, so if you have any questions ablut difficulty or sequence, please ask as I may be able to answer them.

Regards, Nick

deckelnut · Jun 5, 2006

Having use polyurethane paints in the past, I had always been disapointed with the poor scratch resistance of poly paints when compared to the "old" original paint.

I,ve never used epoxy paint so can't realy comment except to say the drawbacks always put me off using it

I now use and have done so for my last 6 restoration projects used an alkyd based paint called Tekaloid, this is basically a modern "synthetic" version of the "old" linsead oil based paints.

The paint is very tough and gives a high sheen, it's very easy to apply and very forgiving of clumsey brush strokes, it can be spayed by diluting with 10% thinner

the range of paints includes primers, high build easy sand filler primer, undercoat, and top coat

details of alkyd based paint and pics of some of the results I have had

[ 06-06-2006, 06:19 AM: Message edited by: deckelnut ]

Charles Dolan · Jun 5, 2006

Thanks for the advice, "several months" is too long for me this time but I definitely intend to try epoxy later. The lathe has to start earning
its keep soon. The poly seems to do the job, it certainly makes a smart impression today.

The dismantling process was very straight forward it is all very well made and obviously meant to be serviced. I will bear your kind offer in mind though Nick.

Thanks again
Charles.

Nick Alexander · Jun 5, 2006

Hi Charles, It didn't several months to paint with epoxy; it was stripping down and preparing the surfaces, which I would have had to do whatever paint I used. This is also a function of the fact that I could only work on the project for a couple of hours a night a few days a week. The epoxy painting was finished in a weekend.

Regards, Nick

The real Leigh · Jun 5, 2006

Hey Deckelnut,

Could you make that pic a bit larger??? I'm having
difficulty seeing it from across the parking lot :eek:

If you need photo editing software, download Irfanview
from http://www.irfanview.com
It's free, works on all versions of Windoze, and does all sorts of
photo manipulation. It can convert between formats and resize
images as needed. Very easy to use.

Spud · Jun 6, 2006

Perfect timing on this thread, I too was about to ask advice on machine painting.

Got 3 machines I would like to disassemble and repaint.
How do the big boys paint the machines, i.e. DMG,Weiler,Schaublin,Mikron and the rest..

I tend to like the non glossy finish.
What about powder coating?
Is there a good book anyone can recommend on this topic?
I want to do it methodically,slow and through and only after I have researched the topic ad-nauseum

. I would like to remove the old paint to bare metal.

Anyone know what method the top professional machine rebuilders/restorers use?

How about the method for old paint removal? I have plenty of time so if it takes a tooth brush and 2 months to remove old paint, then thats waht I'll do

I want to use the least harsh but effective method.Concerned about removing and or scoring the base metal.

Wouldn't some type of spray method produce the most even/best results :confused:

, with the spraying done in many light coats instead of 1 or 2 thick coats?

Is machine painting similar to car painting?

Nick Alexander · Jun 6, 2006

Hi Spud, bear in mind that if you remove all the paint to bare metal you will need to do a lot of filling to cover up all the casting marks. This is a huge job in itself, but if you stick to it you can get very impressive results.

Regards, Nick.

deckelnut · Jun 6, 2006

Could you make that pic a bit larger??? I'm having
difficulty seeing it from across the parking lot

LMAO

Spud.

when your in England, you could pick up some of the Tekaloid paint I mentioned, this is closest modern alternative to that used by the OEM's and is used by various machine builders today.

You can use paint stripper to remove the old paint, or Sodium hydroxide (caustic soda) this will remove traces of oil engrained into bare cast iron patches, also you could opt for an electolyitic process using the caustic solution as an electrolite (disadvantage is it produces hydrogen) there ane many referances to home workshop uses of electrolosys

the tekaloid can be spray or brush applied and both methods result in a very good finish, i think HMG paint also make an alkyd based paint too.

good professional machine rebuilders always spray and use one brand or another of high-build filler primer

Spud · Jun 6, 2006

Does Tekaloid use the same paint identification codes that swiss/german machine builders specify in their machines?
RAL Paint #. What does the RAL stand for?

About casting filler.
Is this a necessity even in high quality machines like Studer,Deckel,Sixis etc..?

Is this like bondo for cars? Any chance it might 'chip off' or 'break off' so to speak.

My Schaublin has a few nics on the front lip of the cast iron base. I can see that there is a white layer between the actual paint and the base metal. What is this white layer? Is it a base coat?

Thanks

PS http://www.themeter.net/ral_e.htm?Submit=RAL+colour

How does the RAL colour table correspond to the WEB colour table?

deckelnut · Jun 6, 2006

Tekaloid can be mixed to BS, RAL, Pantone colours or matched to your sample

RAL = "Reichs-Ausschuss für Lieferbedingungen"

Started in 1925 to standarise technical descriptions and terms of supply of all kinds of goods.

Filler will be required on all but the very, very best of modern sand castings and will certainly be required on older castings.

My Leinen lathe castings had obvious "split line" so much so I actually "fettled" the castings with a bastard file.

spray filler (or brush) is NOT like "bondo" at all, though "bondo" can be usefull for large imperfections and unless flexed will not break away, drop anythin too heavy on even epoxy paints and fillers and it will chip (see posts by aboard epsillon on the deckel forum) for me the alkyd based paints have the right balance between toughness and hardness IMO

the white layer is spray filler, (tekaloid though is usually grey, but white alkyd filler primers can be obtained)

aboard_epsilon · Jun 6, 2006

ive had recent thoughts that any paint is only as good as its casting filler ..
on the last machine i did ....the casting filler was similar or the same as plaster of paris.

if its like that ...i would remove the lot ........and start again.

all the best...mark

machine head · Jun 8, 2006

Use a 2 part epoxy and give your machine the last paint job it will ever need. After it cures, you can rub on it till your rear end turns blue and it wont wear off.

Spud · Jun 10, 2006

I would dearly love to kow how Franz Singer paints his machines. Do you guys think asking is a Faux Pas?

Look at this slotting head, its exquisite.Whether it has been restored or not, the paint doesn't look 'thick' & 'glossy'.
I realise the term 'glossy' could be subjective.

btm · Jun 10, 2006

Machine head,

Which two part epoxy do you use?

I noticed you're in Lancaster. I'm in Milton, (central PA) and I'm assuming that whatever you're using, is probably available in my area as well. I have a machine to paint, and you seem to be impressed with the paint that you're using, so I may consider using it on my lathe.

machine head · Jun 12, 2006

mtech,

I used a two part epoxy from MAB paints, Its labled "high build" and it does a great job of hiding surface imperfections.

It can be tinted and cost about $80.00 for a two gallon kit.

I painted my clausing lathe and bridgeport with it and plan to use it on a newly purchased surface grinder.

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