can anyone ID and/or date this old welder???

http://xs47.xs.to/pics/05380/Welder1001.JPG

top unit proclaims it the "missing link", and my neighbor swears its most likely a DC converting unit or some such.

without the top in the circuit, its a AC stick unit. Bottom labeled "mid states south" and "continuous duty welder".

I would guess it is from the late forties and the top unit may be a high frequency converter for tig welding.
Hyperpack

Hm. so the top is a DC converter? My neighbor said he could tell by the test welds he made with the top unit in the circuit it was DC.

bottom is just regular AC welder.

question: when the top unit is in use, would it be normal for it to make a real hissing, crackling, bacon cooking noise? we were wondering if it was serviceable because of the odd noise. I thought maybe due to its age and all, perhaps it was designed to be jumping a gap or something to make it work???

dont want to invest in a gun configuration wire feed/gas unit if its not working normal...

Older high freq. units used an arc to generate the high frequency. This may be what you are hearing. The machine shop at a TV plant I worked at had one of these. It would wipe out a AM radio when in use. It is a wonder we did not have problems with our test signals on the TV production lines. An arc generate frequency of DC to light. That is why the FCC doesnot allow spark transmitters any more. Also why you have resistance plug wires on our car, to reduce interferance.

Kent

whoa, cool! Thanks dude. Me and my neighbor were arguing about the top unit. We both agreed it was a DC unit, but were split on its working correctly or not. He thought it was a big capacitor pooping out and arcing...and i swore it sounded like an old time radio spark gap coil, LMAO. (hobby radio electronics dude I am...lol)

thanks. It isnt often i best him on some small point of arcane knowledge. In fact, this might be a first (other than Laura Branigan's birthplace and national heritage...i think he's confusing her with the canadian lady...LB is born in upstate NY)

so...i can get one of those "gun unit" wire feed things?? the one with gas, or gasless? was told more than once, wire feed is easier for the newbie welder at home...lol

PS - I might be the only "straight" male LB fan, ever, lol...a dubious distinction indeed. I always WONDERED why I couldnt find another male fan, when her sales numbered into the tens of millions....lmao

Its probably not gonna be cost effective to put a wire feeder on that welder.
Most wire feeders require a "constant voltage" power supply.
Most old stick welders, like this one, are "constant current", with a variable voltage.
So your average wire feeder wont work with that power supply.
They do make a few "constant current" wire feeders, but they are usually a lot rarer and more expensive, although I am pretty sure both miller and lincoln make one.

Best thing to do would be throw the welder in the back of the truck, and find a decent full line Miller and Lincoln dealing welding supply store- not a home depot or a grainger, but a place that only sells welders. Ask them what your options are- but my guess is that for less money than buying a wire feeder that will run on that machine, you could buy a nice brand new all in one wire feed welder, and keep that one for stick only.

sedstar,
You could get a CC wire feed unit for your welder. I think you'd be real disappointed in it though. You'd also be spending enough money to buy a really nice MIG machine.

I believe that missing link is just a high frequency unit. There's no rectification in it. It just superimposes a hi-frequency/hi-voltage on your welding circuit so you can TIG weld with A/C or have an auto arc-start on a DC welder. It should enable you to avoid the sticking of rods while learning to weld.

I would recommend learning with what you have.

oh well, just having a continuous duty "beast" AC stick is good enough. I likened learning to strike an arc to playing "pin the tail on the donkey"... prepare everythign meticulously...plan, plan, plan, measure, cut, then blindly stab with high voltage until you can see something, LMAO.

My neioghbor has a "poke and draw" to start an arc, i went for his other trick, the "strike a match" technique. Lol. Man, when i get done paying this one lawyer off, I am getting a cheap auto-darkening helmet...will be nice to see something, lol.

on a newbie pointer...metal while molten, is still metal, eh? it still retains its mass and density, and the flux/slag is much lighter, making it flow to the top, right?

so, if i get the ocasional inclusions here and there practicing, i can up the juice slightly, or move slower, or both, eh? giving the slag time to rise to the top as the lighter (less dense) material WANTS to float up, given time to do so befor solidification re-occurs.

With AC, you'll probably be better off with striking a match. Your missing link ought to send a high voltage spike that'll jump the gap and get your rod burning for you.

I find slag inclusion is often caused by moving too slowly. Position yourself so you can see the front of the puddle. If it over runs the arc, you are likely going to find an inclusion there. It takes time but you'll be able to tell the difference between the slag puddle and the metal puddle.

LMAO...i did not know there were two puddles, thanks.

I'll have to try to notice it the next time out. Heck, just got used to watching the puddle instead of going "ooh!" about the arc, lol.

'kay...will be turning it up a little and moving faster, keep arc ahead of the leading edge of the puddle and dont "lag" once I am moving. check.

thanks!

once i get over the inclusions/porosity thing, i'll actually be able to make something useful, heh heh.

If there's any caps in the machine (especially if they're electrolytic) you'll probably want to replace them. From your background in electronics you know they do have an effective life time. That box reminds me a lot of my grandfather's farm shop welder (of 50s vintage). Its nice to see an old piece in use. Good luck with it!

Nick

I trick I use to strike an arc, is to have a spot light pointed at the job, you should be able to dimly see what you are up to, inspite of having a solid black sheet in front of your eyes, sometimes called glass! Oh yes, watch out for arc burn, causing your face to go red and sore leaving a nice white sillouette of your welding goggles.

Obviously I am on a different continent but this welder sounds very much like the EMF Pilot Arc welder that a good friend gave me recently. Like the other posts have suggested this has the high frequency converter which is somewhate similar to the auto-start feature on modern TIG welders, and I believe the exact same circuitry is use on modern plasma cutters for the pilot arc.

When I got my unit home I couldn't get the unit work properly. Part of the reason is that I am yet to build a tranformer and phase converter which will step up my 240V single phase to 415V three phase. Obviously a welder designed for 415V won't work too well on nearly half voltage.... but I just had to try!!

However, part of the circuit (as mentioned) has a spark gap which has to be adjusted to the correct clearance for it to work. If the unit has been standing for a while it might have a bit of dust and no doubt some carbon and oxidation on the surfaces of the spark gaps which will prevent it from working properly.

When I adjusted mine up to the correct clearance (marked inside the case) it worked properly. When it works properly it sounds like a bug zapper with a rat-sized mosquito stuck on the grids. When you weld the arc starts without touching the rod to the workpiece.

My EMF Pilot Arc is a design typical of 50's welders. Over-engineered to the max, simple design, built to last. EMF was an Australian company which became CIG (Commonwealth Industrial Gases), which was bought out by Thermadyne in the late 90's and became BOC. Modern BOC welders are built with cheap labour in Malaysia and are pieces of sh*t. Funny how things change.

I was originally going to build a high frequency converter for the other stick welder I have but this EMF fell into my lap. All I have to do now is add a rectifier and I have an heavy duty AC/DC TIG machine with more grunt than a TIG inverter for 5% of the cost (after setup).

My observations:
1) Work hard and get some cash;
2) Spend the money and get a GOOD auto-darkening helmet eg Speedglas 9000V (or equivalent). This will NEVER be a waste of money. Not only will you learn to weld a lot quicker, your eyes will thank you for years to come- which is in reality a cheap investment. Cheaper auto darkening helmets have slower activation times which means they will damage your eyes;
3) Get yourself some BIG diodes off Ebay (stud mount, 300 amps or so) and build yourself a rectifier for this stick welder, and if you get a TIG torch and a bottle of Argon you can then TIG weld;
4)Get yourself a dedicated MIG welder- don't worry about coverting this machine.

Hope this helps!

SIR,
i could be wrong, but it looks
like an old FORNEY brand. did
you look inside the machine to
see if there is information, and
or a wiring diagram?
wlbrown

Sedstar:- just FYI, you are NOT the only straight male LB Fan !!

Anyway, Good Luck with the Welder - I'm sure you'll make your Utility Co VERY happy

I am sorry but you are all mistaken. That thing is a robot.

PortPirate

My thoughts exactly. One of R2D2's buddies on Star Wars.