5 Axis Cam Software

I am in the market for 5 axis software in the past we have had seats for IDEAS, really good package, extemely expensive base cost and yearly maintenance. Surfcam I hate this package absolutely terrible for 5 axis work hard to manipulate and the posted cam data results in jerky stepped motion.

I need a package with the ability to generate continous fully interpolated 5 axis motion off the tool tip or tool center. Said package should be able to generate machine specific post processors for 3,4, and 5 axis machines or provide posts and no yearly maintenance costs.

Scott

Said package should be able to generate machine specific post processors for 3,4, and 5 axis machines or provide posts and no yearly maintenance costs.

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Wow, are you in for a rude awakening!

Currently the only software to fit this tall order is Synergy from www.webersys.com ,and I'm not really sure how well it will do the job. I looked at the demo a while ago, and it was like a trip back to the 1980's. In all honesty, I didn't pursue it because of the antiquated GUI.

Other then that, you are going to have to wait a bit until Mecsoft releases their next version of VisualMill. It will have continuous 5-axis, and is the only one that I know of that won't charge maintenance.

If there are others, I too would like to know.

Hope this helps,

Dan

Dan said,
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"Wow, are you in for a rude awakening!"
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For me a rude awakening is catching a your 9 yr. old's lightsaber between the eyes while you are napping on the couch or having your wife (x karate instructor) have a bad dream in bed and punching and kicking you and anything else in her way before she wakes up and decides it was only a dream. She broke one of my ribs doing that but she won the fight in her dream.

I guess it will be a toss up between Onecnc and Mecsoft both are working on a 5 axis package. I guess IDEAS spoiled me you could write your own posts. The only reason we switched to Surfware was due to a young idiot engineer who was overwhelmed by IDEAS, side note he quit to design, make baby toys, his XYL supports him now.
Bad thing is I cannot reload my ideas software as it takes a password string that makes the alphabet look short and must be bought, dang it.
I own the software and dongles just cant get past that string.

Scott

Man, Scott! I'll bet when she says "Take out the trash" you hop to......

Ted

Ted,
Actually she is a very calm sweet woman unless cornered. She has been known to mess up someones day if you tick her off. Years ago she got attacked in a bar and we had to fight our way out both of us almost went to jail that night. Needless to say we stay out of bars nowadays. That bad night surfaces in a dream every once and awhile. Between her and our Rottwieler, fully devoted to her of course, our house and kids are in the best of hands. And yes, I do take out the trash usually without being asked.

Scott

That bad night surfaces in a dream every once and awhile

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thus the broken rib......

WorkNC from SESCOI http://www.sescoi.com has a fairly well-developed five axis programming system. It is fast and fairly easy to learn. Excellent collision prevention and detection capability.

I would take a hard look at this alternative.

However, I would rethink your requirement of no annual maintenance costs. CAM software is constantly undergoing revisions and improvements. Annual maintenance insures you have the most competitive tools from year to year.

It is fast and fairly easy to learn. Excellent collision prevention and detection capability.

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I have been a WorkNC user since the DOS days. I have been evaluating the 5X module since the beginning of the year. I agree with your statement, but it's my experience that the cutter paths are very rough, and lack smooth, fluid motion. I'm hoping v18 will solve this, although I'm pretty sure it's a post issue. Next week I am going to post my paths in APT format and run them thru a post-processor tha I had written for another purpose. I expect to see vast improvements.

As far as maintenance, that is a whole other can of worms, but I feel Sescoi's 50% charge for maintenance is a bit excessive ($5000 module and $2500 annual maintenance!)

Dan

it's my experience that the cutter paths are very rough, and lack smooth, fluid motion.

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Interesting... could you provide more details? Are the tool paths rough because of geometry or some user definable parameter? Are you seeing the problems as you visualize the program or at the machine tool?

However, I would rethink your requirement of no annual maintenance costs. CAM software is constantly undergoing revisions and improvements. Annual maintenance insures you have the most competitive tools from year to year.

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Why is that same reasoning keep popping up? What if I'd rather pay for the new version when I'm good and ready? What if the annual updates don't fix or address my most important needs? What if I decide after 3 years that there is a better, more capable sw out there? Do I get my annual maintenance payments back?
Why are sw companies considered the decendants of GOD?

Don't get me wrong, I realize that the cost of something is what it is, but it's interesting that no other real product can ever be sold the way sw is with its EULA. I tell you that most common people using commercial/mass-produced sw like Windows, Office, photoshop etc. don't really know or care about the EXACT terms of the license. They just clicked the "Accept" button and see ya later. I want to see ANY company starting to invade the property of the unwashed masses and demand an annual maintenance fee, or else remove the package from the puter.
Why is it that even the allmighty Microsoft did not get the annual pay-as-you-go plan implemented for Windoze? They've been hoping to start that with Win95, yet still nothing. How much you wanna bet that it would spell the immediate and irreversible end of MS and it's dominance?

Sorry to steal the thread, and these comments really belong in the other one with the software costs, but I just could not resist saying something about the maintenance crap.

Sorry I got you so hot under the collar! There is a real economic decision every company must make in this regard.

To your point, s/w co's like MS can be very profitable when they don't need to make many improvements or don't deliver a quality product.

However,toolpath generation and the mechanics of machining ARE STILL EVOLVING - it's these changes that I'm refering to. Heck, if all you need is 2.5 axis work, the costs are minimal.

The toolpaths, when generated as G-code with WorkNC's post-processor do a lot of stuttering and stalling. I know it's not our machine (Hermle C800U) because I have seen simultaneous 5-axis paths run very smooth and fluid on it. We called the Hermle headquarters in Wisconsin, just to see if there was some setting we needed to be using in the controller. When we told him we were using the 5X module in WorkNC he laughed, and said "garbage in, garbage out". You have to give the German's credit for their honesty. They don't mix words, that's for sure

I addressed this to our WorkNC support, whose only advice was to wait for V18. He suggested something about an inverse time feedrate, but was unable to expand upon how to do this. They don't seem too concerned with helping me. To their credit, they have let me evaluate the module continuously since Jan 1. I will have a beta of V18 in my hands very soon, so I will see what happens.

Here is what I plan to do in the mean time. We have a Tri-tech head (www.5-axis.com) fit on a Fadal. This head requires it's own post-processor, for reasons I won't go into here. I need to export my 3+2 programs as an APT file, and post them for the head in this 3rd party post-processor. That works well. I produce simultaneous 5X engraving paths out of Rhino, using a program I wrote, in APT language, and these too run very well (smooth, fluid motion). When I create 5X paths out of WorkNC, and post them as APT, these run well on the Tri-tech head. So it seems that the WorkNC post for creating G-code is at fault. I have a 3rd party post for 5X drilling for the Hermle,(I have a 5X drilling program I wrote for Rhino) that I have just had updated to allow my Rhino 5X engraving paths to run on the Hermle. This upcoming week I am going to try WorkNC 5X paths using this post and see how they run on the Hermle.

As far as the maintenance goes, I don't agree with it either. We should be given the option of evaluating upgrades and only purchasing them if there are changes that will benefit us. I have no interest in paying thousands of dollars a year so that WorkNC-Cad can get parametric solid modeling, which I will never use. Also, minor upgrades, which I should be entitled too, are only delivered if I happen to find out there is one, and confront them on it. Seems to me, for $9,000 a year, I should get these automatically.

Dan

toolpath generation and the mechanics of machining ARE STILL EVOLVING

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Not very quickly, imo. Not enough to justify the maintenance fees.That is another reason I like VisualMill/RhinoCam. No maintenance, I get quick response to my questions and when they do a big jump I will pay for it. The needle in the vein stuff is rapidly becoming archaic.......

Ted

Wow, Dan B, it sounds like you've got a good system working there already....maybe you need to start up a sales division

How much of a market is there (really) for an application such as yours? Would any two people think alike on the requirements of the software to run the show?

Wow, Dan B, it sounds like you've got a good system working there already....maybe you need to start up a sales division [Smile]

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I wish. Had I written all this stuff at home, I would seriously be thinking of marketing a Rhino "Mechanical" package. I'm doing some pretty "crazy" things with Rhino, which makes me smile everytime someone says Rhino is not a good mechanical package, but only good for artists. However, 90% of this was written at work over the last 4 years (and continuing almost daily) so I don't have the right to profit from it. Actually, that's not quite true, because it makes us more efficient then our competitors, which in turn gets us more work, which in turn makes my paychecks bigger.

Dan

With Hypermill you can pay the yearly maintenance or not. It is your choice.

They have 5 axis software and their software is high end. They have been doing it for years, it is not vaporware. You must be using one of the supported CAD packages. I do not know all of them.

I have been an Autodesk Mechanical Desktop and Inventor user for many years. I have also been using Hypermill Pro (3 axis) for years. Hypermill runs inside Autodesk and other CAD products. Its integration with a CAD package is amazing. It is one of the best CAM packages in existence.

Dave

http://www.openmind-tech.com/zv

I use all of the Delcam products, and am very happy with them. The PowerMill package is great for 5-axis work. They are expensive, but I have found them to be worth it. I have used many other packages in the past such as SmartCam ( I'm dating myself, although they are selling it again ) MasterCam, Esprit, among others. I like different things about each package, but for 5-axis work, I think PowerMill is one of the best. Could be better for the simple tasks than it is, but the way it works with 4-5axis projects is impressive.

Mike

NOTE TO ADMIN: I'd be curious to know how many of these newbies that chime in to support a particular product or company (on post 1) ever go on to contribute anything of significance later on?

To everyone else: Why doesn't someone put together a matrix for the different 4 and 5 axis packages, and compile a list of helpful user data? (including whether or not maintenance is required) This is a common recurring topic - it could be a FAQ.

Hi Failsafe,

Some of the first timers are obviously either sales people or employees of said cam package. I believe mike is neither. His assement was not the typically gooey stuff these guys write and he addresses a shortcoming of the product which a shill never would.

Ted

failsafe7

I bring Hypermill to scojen's attention because I believe in it and I think it is worth looking into.

Have you "contribute(d) anything of significance" to this thread?

Take some time off, go to an island, relax, you have clearly spent too much time in front of your computer lately.


smallshop

About me, your logic is in error.


Dave