What type of 3D CAD to use ?

Ok, here is a seemingly retarded question:
For those of us schmucks that will only use a 3D cad system to re-draw the parts we need to manufacture, which CAD package makes the most sense?

I'm asking this as there seem to be so many terms being thrown around, such as modeling, surfacing, design collaboration etc. etc.
In my, and I think for quite a few of us in this business, features geared towards product design in the proper sense is unimportant. What we use CAD for 98% of the time is to get from hard copy print to an electronic version of it for machining purposes, and to do it as quickly as possible. That is it!
So the question really is which package or what features would be important for us, and what are completely irrelevant?

What is your budget?

For a reasonable amount of money you can get Alibre. It works pretty well. You can import models and make drawings. You can also do pretty good 3D modeling with it.


If you got the budget Solidworks is nice.


I am sure that there are other but that is what I have used.

What Cam program do you use?


ARB

What Cam program do you use?

Click to expand...

You don't wanna know!

It begins with a B and it blows...
To answer your question though, budget is not important in this case. What I'm after is the features that make the quickest machineable drawing. Period.
Not completely sure what modeling is, but not sure if that's important for machining purpose.?!
Lemme clarify it a little. As it stands today, I'm not machining anything that has the need for 3D profiling. Parts maybe complex, but only 2 1/2 D machining or profiling is required. Now I use ACAD to redraw ALL the prints I get, and the time spent with the actual CAD portion is negligibly small, hardly ever more than 20 - 30 minutes. Again, no surfaces, solids, union etc. etc. Only 2D.
I'm now in the process of getting a REAL CAM package. Don't know what yet, but it seems that to get the most out of them a 3D model is best.
Don't care about integrated CAD/CAM sw, just looking for the most efficient way to draw parts for machining. If it's Solidworks, Inventor, KeyCreator < yukk >, doesn't matter.
The reason I ask is that to me it doesn't make sense using CAM to speed up the programming, if more time is required to draw the part in 3D.

If all you need is 3d CAD then Solidworks is pretty hard to beat for speed and ease of use. It's all I've ever used really for modeling so I can't compare to say solidedge or inventor. The support is really good too. Price is around 5k for the premium version.

I have my own seat of Solidworks and also use Camworks for Programming...it works well, is Database driven, and fast...

We bought Topsolid with the machining and Moldmaker module. We like it a lot. It is FAR superior to Solidworks for MOLD Design. For part design only, Solidworks is a fantastic tool and has many more users and is more widespread. I don't think you can possibly go wrong with Solidworks. I think you would really like Topsolid also. Maybe demo them both to see which you personally like better. Both are outstanding packages. Worlds beyond some of the outdated revamped junk out there that will remain nameless.

I don't know anything about KeyCreator, but this is where you can actually get real hands on working demos that don't tie your hands. Both Inventor and Solidworks provide 90 day trials of their software. IMHO Inventor and Solidworks are pretty much equal now. As an current AutoCad user you may find that you might get better pricing plus get upgraded on AutoCad and Mechanical at the same time (they come with Inventor).

Try before you buy and then you can pick the one that best meets your needs and style!

Seymour,

You said in another place that you never get electronic files from your customers. I find that strange, and I wonder how long it will be that way for you?

If other guys are modelling the parts (even simple parts get modelled when a machine is built), then spit out 2d prints for you to rework back into computer data, well, some lack of communication is going on there. It is very inefficient, and if an error occurs, its likely going to be yours, based on re-interpreting the data.

So, if you get something that can handle solid models, from which you can simply put the thing up on the screen, extract an edge and profile it, wouldn't that be nice? It helps you to make sense of the file, and how you did it when you come back and look at it after you've forgotten about it.

That is one of the things I really like about using OneCNC versus that Bobcobble is that the part (in 3d form or 2d, whatever) is in there, and a permanent record of how it was cut which you can look at and review, or show to your guys to show them how you planned the job out, if it is complex.

2d does not mean a job is simple to document. There are oodles of details that have to be covered and communicated to whoever runs the program.

I have certain files that I run annually on repeat jobs. Sometimes, I have even changed the machine I'm going to do it on. But most likely, I've bought this or that attachment, or a kick-ass tool that will improve last year's running of the program if I just do this, this and this, repost and go cut it.

Its great in OneCNC. I imagine others are as enthused about their software, too. But, you gotta wean off of that Bobcad

Nag Nag Nag.... I know.... I'm gonna...

Here is the problem though, being a 3rd tier supplier, there is no way to get electronic prints for 80% of the stuff I do, for a good number of them they don't even exist. So that's out.

As far as preserving the process, it is fine, but there is a very good chance that it's useless, as I tweak the code on the machine for most of the parts.
Change speeds/feeds, rapid and clearance planes to optimize for time, tool life, PITA factor etc. I do however document ALL the necessary info right in the header and tool specific stuff at each toolchange block. As my luck has it, I usually run the same parts in a 3 to 6 month intervals, so setup is pretty large part of my life compared to a typical jobshop. Good documentation is useful for many other reasons as well, hence the very extensive info in my travelers.
Anyway, back to the original issue, Inventor will certainly be one of the packages I'll look at. There won't be much in the way of upgrade as I use ACAD14, most of the upgrades start at 2002.
It's OK though, got my money's worth and then some. No complaints about paying full price for the new stuff.
To connect back to the other thread, Rhino is a fine piece of sw, but somehow the snappiness type of features are not there. Haven't given up yet, still gonna check out as many others as I can though.
I typically settle on something and stick with it, in fact BobCad v18 will prolly remain the primary thing for the 2 axis EDM programs regardless of what I get.
What can I say, I'm weird that way...

Topsolid is far superior for mold design that SW..care to back that bold statement up???

I believe KeyCreator (reborn Cadkey) offers downloadable demos too. I receive e-mails regularily wanting me to try it, as we used to be Cadkey users.

Dan

Solidworks is what is being used most in my area...I would be pretty silly to not use the same software as most of my customers.
There IS a difference in models when translated from one system to another. When you get into doing a lot of surfacing, Solids just rocks. Watertight models require less fussing with to get good toolpaths.
Jim

...which CAD package makes the most sense?

Click to expand...

One of the Ashlar products.

http://www.ashlar.com/sections/products/overview/overview.html

The CAD product that makes the most sense, is the one that you put to the best use. Don't overbuy, or underbuy. Buy something that you can use in lots of creative ways.

Lots of homework involved to make this decision. Better get started...

"Topsolid is far superior for mold design that SW..care to back that bold statement up???"

First of all, I did not mean to trash Solidworks which is a GREAT package. BUT, Topsolid WITH the TOPMOLD module makes mold design a semi-automated process. (this is not inexpensive software) We used an outside design firm to design a complicated mold for us. The part was partially digitized and blended into a Solidworks model. There were two areas on the model that they were not able to blend correctly. The Topsolid instructor fixed the file in less than 30 minutes.
Again, nothing against Solidworks, for most applications it is the better choice as it has MANY more installed seats and users trained in it. It is also a lot less expensive.

Well, including an optonal add in to Topsolid, and comparing it to the standard stuff that comes standard with SW is comparing oranges to apples...

All I need to do as add in Moldworks, as seen here:

http://www.solidworks.com/pages/partners/PartnerDetails.html?ID=268&productid=144

and I again blow away Topsolid,lol..

"and I again blow away Topsolid,lol.."

A toy compared to Topmold. Get a Demo

"A toy compared to Topmold. Get a Demo"

Who is the Conneticut VAR for Topsolid?

Are you happy with TopSolid manuals written by someone for who English is not their native language?

I don't doubt that TopSolid is better at fixing non-native data then SolidWorks is. I do doubt a lot of other things about TopSolid because of the very poor choices that Missler made for a former VAR in Southern, Ca. Apparently he is no longer a VAR for Topsolid. The main distributor in the U.S. (Clearcut Solutions) seems to be fairly helpful.

I have not been able to find the time to evaluate Topsolid. I have the demo here but it's not high on my priority list right now.

Jon Banquer
Phoenix, Arizon

"One of the Ashlar products."

What use to be Ashlar Solids and is now Ashlar Cobalt was written by Tim Olson who owns CSI Concepts. Tim Olson licensed the code to Ashlar. A few years ago they parted ways.

It looks to me that since then Tim Olson has done a lot more work to Concepts then Ashlar has done to Cobalt.

www.csi-concepts.com

Jon Banquer
Phoenix, Arizona

Jon,

It is Integrated Solid Solutions. Super good people to deal with. I don't have to read the manuals, I just pay for them. I use the demo on my PC at work to quote jobs. We only have one seat and it is upstairs. I can't print with the demo, but other than that I love it. We had them come in and train 2 guys. For the little I do with it I just ask them if I get stuck. It is AWESOME for looking and analyising solid mold assemblies. I really don't know why I pass this info on. It would be to my advantage to have the competition using other software, but what the heck, everyone around here has already bought it anyways and that is no bull.