What brand of lathe?

Hey guys,

I will be eventually be looking for a lathe. Something along the lines of 14x40 or bigger. Something old and American. I was kinda set on a Cincinnati or LeBlond for a while. But, recently discovered the Pratt & Whitney model B. Yes, I was looking at that one on E-Bay for $500. Had plans to go look, but the lathe was sold before I could get down there. Also, since joining this forum I hadn't known about Monarch lathes. So, it seems there are a lot of old manual engine lathes to choose from. I am not exactly sure what my needs are for a lathe. So, it would probably be impossible for anyone to give a direct recommendation on "this is the lathe that would suit you best". I guess I am mostly looking for opinions on the benefits and drawbacks comparatively on the old American iron lathes from people who have used them.

thanks,

Mark
Berkshire Transmissions
North Adams, Massachusetts

I have a p&W model b and I love it, it is real stout I can take full depth cuts of a carbide insert and not even blink. I work for a machinerey dealer and have torn apart alot of lathes the older american ones are built like tanks but are getting pretty old now. I am not talking about little southbends or logans but about monarchs leblonds atw and others these are great lathes and if you find one even if it is real worn it will still do great work we use a totally clapped out sidney gearhead at work and everything still works on it even though it sounds like a threshing machine. I have taken apart some of the japanese machines like mazak and mori seiki and they are beautiful, just as good as american in every resepct. The older american machines usually dont spin real fast my pratt only goes 500 rpm but for what I do with it that is fine.The big american lathes from the 40"s and 50"s can be had real cheap we just bought a filthy monarch 18x 60 for 500 bucks and everthing works on it we are just going to clean and paint it and give it a tune up and adjustment. All fixed up and running well it will probably bring 3000 dollars. I love old american stuff so I am really biased but any of the big makers like monarch hendy leblond or cincinatti you cant go wrong, they were designed for heavey industrial use and in the home shop they will be indestructable.

Mark:

There was also Lodge & Shipley. Made "Good Lathes Only" from 1893 to 1984 at 3055 Colerain(sp?) in Cincinnati. 12" to huge. Many styles and designs, all serious heavy duty machines, every engine lathe they ever made had a quick change feed/thread gear box.

Some of the greatest were the Model X from the late thirties well into the fifties. These are recognizeable by their "closed" quick change controled by a round dial. The 14 and 16" Model X would go to 1160 RPM.

Here is a link to a photo of a 20 X 54 Model X:

L&S Model X

John

Wow, that almost makes a Pacemaker look underbuilt. How did they compare as far as quantity built and availability with a Pacemaker of their era?

I understand the P&W's were concentrated in the east and were a very good lathe and remained very desirable at least into the 80's.

John, once again we thank you for your insight and knowledge on these old workhorses.

Doug Baker

L&S was always prolific. 2500 a year as early as the teens. At least to the extent that the market was there. I expect there were more Model X L&S built than Pacemakers, but that is only a guess. They were contemporaries. Pacemaker was just that as far as high spindle speeds - they showed the way.

John

Why did you have to go and show a picture of that lathe now I have a real bad case of lathe envy mine is lookin so puny and inadiquate compared to that.

Maybe you'd druther a Model G instead. 16,000 lbs of 25" catalog swing L3 spindle nosed Lodge & Shipley know how - still with the QC where they thought it should go in 1893. This one from '46 - replaced shortly after with an even more capaple 25" Model X on that same new bed design.

Note this the very last of the L&S line with no feed rod - just a splined lead screw like they started off with.
L&S Model G

John

I will add my two cents worh here. I have a friend who has a L&S model X and he likes it real well. and it has one feature I really liked. when the carrige moves the oiler for it pumped and you could also pump it manually. that said, I have a Cincinnatti Hydrashift 18X96 built in 1960 one year newer than me =-) it has got to be one of the slickest running lathes I have ever seen. and the hydrashift unit works like a dream. it weighs in at about 4000 pounds and for all around use it is super it has a 5 HP 3 phase motor and has a clutch so it runs nice on a phase converter and has built in coolant. It was not without it's problems when I first got it but I have most of them sorted out. i still have to get the saddle to pump oil up and put air on the tailstock (which is a mod recommended by a machinist friend). I am a hobbiest but if i were running a manual machine for a living this is what I would have
Happy Hunting
archie =) =) =)
One last thought whatever you get get something long enough to turn Driveshafts not one of those 30 inch bed models. when I found this lathe I was going to look at american pace maker that was 14X30 and probably weighed 4,500 pounds like the model X also you need a lathe that was made after WWII ( after the advent of carbide tooling) that is when the speed's increased.

I'll put my $0.02 in for a Monarch of at least 13 x 42 (15.5" actual swing) with the "toolroom" package (wider range threading and feed gearbox, and coolant system).

These were made in 30, 42, 54, and longer, in 12 in. increments.

Just about any swing, too.

The Hydrashift is sexy, but very expensive to repair.

The all-manual Monarchs are almost indestructible.

L&S is now part of Monarch.

Monarch provides exceptional support, and is very cooperative with HSMers in providing good used parts, when available.

Some brand new manual machines are still being made, but these cost in the six figures, and up.

Check out these Pratt Whitney Model C (1000rpm top speed, more versatile than Model B which I have) Great lathes !

http://cgi.ebay.com/Pratt-Whitney-Engine-Lathe_W0QQitemZ300100892925QQihZ020QQcategoryZ97230QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/PRATT-WHITNEY-HORIZONTAL-ENGINE-LATHE-16-X-54_W0QQitemZ250169920768QQihZ015QQcategoryZ97230QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

A lot of fine machines mentioned so far. But don't overlook the Hendeys, several models in the size being looked for. Good ones turn up now and then. I know I enjoy the heck out of my 14x6.

wish i could find a P&w around indiana,found one but lost the bid i used to work on the big p&w aircraft engines

jason

Never heard one bad thing about a P&W B or C. I have a Leblond and like it just fine but would buy a P&W if I ran across a good one at a good price.

wish i could find a P&w around indiana,found one but lost the bid i used to work on the big p&w aircraft engines

Click to expand...

But you probably know they were entirely different companies

P&WA in Hartford, then East Hartford. P&WMT in Hartford, then West Hartford. There is a Home Depot Plaza there in WH now

John

First off, the lineage of the L&S and Pacemaker is obvious if you look closely. Billy Lodge split with Davis to form L&S, Davis later formed ATW. The layout of the lathes and features on them are nearly identical. Having run a big Pacemaker and as owner of an 18" 1918 L&S, I find the L&S to be more comfortable to use im my applications.

The Pacemaker is an absolutely amazing and rediculously powerful machine, but it's HUGE. I calculated that the tailstock on the 24" Pacemaker weighed nearly as much as my Toyota Tercel I was driving that time. Moving up it or down the bed confirmed this. But if the job was reducing a piece of 12" steel to 2" diameter as fast as possible, the Pacemaker was just the ticket. I never managed to even get it in a strain, much less load it up heavily. The guy we got it from said he had it cutting 5/16" depth of cut on an 8" piece of steel bar at mid range feed pretty regular. And this was with only four of the eight matched belts in place on it. You could hold .0005 over 6ft. Run it all day and you'd sleep good, though. Cranking a ton of carriage and a few hundred pounds of cross slide and compound back and forth will kick your @$$ in short order.

Now, the old 1918 L&S is not up to those Herculean feats, but it'll still take 1/8" depth of cut on 3 or 4" material without breaking a sweat and hold .001 all day long in the process. I hoisted the tailstock and ram onto the bed by myself. I can change the chuck without a crane. The whole size of the machine is about 2/3 the size of the Pacemaker and I find it no more tiring than the SB10L to run. It just feels right. I cna run it all day long and don't feel tired except from being on my feet.

I am looking for a local deal on a 14" or so late model Quick Turn or 1408 AVS, at which point I'll dump my 9" Jet.

Many of the L&S models also came as toolroom lathes with reverse to leadscrew and single tooth clutches, way up into the huge category. Imagine a Monarch EE or Hardinge HLVH, but with 24" or more of swing and 20ft between centers.

Mark --

I happen to have a soft spot in my heart for LeBlond and Axelson lathes, but if I was looking for a used lathe I sure wouldn't set out to find a LeBlond or Axelson . . . I'd look for the lathe that best met my need based on condition, included accessories, capacity, location, and price. A pristine, loaded, big enough, local, and cheap lathe from any of dozens of US, English, Western European, Eastern European, or Asian makers would almost certainly serve me better than a clapped-out LeBlond or Axelson.

John