Small One Man shops

Is there still a demand , in general, for the one man small manuel well equiped shops.

I know a lot depends on your particular market and how aggressive you are.

I am rettied nut need a better income, love machining/mechanical field and consider myself pretty good, so don't know whether to go looking for a 9-5 job or get the shop really going.

Comments??

John

I have sold a few pieces of machinery I didn't need to individuals lately doing something along the lines you describe. It looks like the trend is to find a small job that some local business needs and do the work in advance, and have it ready for when that customer needs it.

A man that just bought a lathe from me got it to keep some kind of special nut on hand for a company that he faces down and cuts to size or something. Another bought a press so he could do some disassembly for local farmers, and he'd also have it for his knife business. In other words, what you're thinking of doing is a viable idea.

Maybe you could find a company with a similar need, or ask a local shop about a job they've been declining, or something they'd rather farm out than bother with.

I still have more surplus stuff (hint) if anyone's interested. Best of luck.

Richard

I have been looking for small jobs for a long time and have been lucky to get under 10 that I can recall.Lots of free work and jobs way below what it is worth but the few dollars offset the cost of tooling and other expenses.A lot of people think because you have a home shop you should work for little of nothing.Watch out for the guys that want one item made with posibilities of future orders later in larger quanities, scam to get one part.I had a guy from Canada on the HSM forum want a pivot for a $50 air gun made from brass that he planed to sell for $30 and claimed there was a big market for them.
Check out the Resources forum on this board and look at RFQ.com in the manual machining section. If you find a source for small jobs and get overloaded I can do some of you overflow!
Getting the work may be easy getting paid may be another story make sure you get at least cost of materials up front, 50% deposit is better.

John, I am a retired machinist that does what you want to do. The biggest problem is zoning laws. If you start a shop in a residential area don't tell the neighbors you are doing business. Keep all the work hidden so no visiters see anything but the one piece your working on and don't tell what it's for. Just tell everyone it's your hobby shop.

Many people are jelous, don't like someone doing something they can't or just like to cause trouble. If one of your neighbors gets mad at you they may turn you in.

The other side is your home owners insurance. If your running a business, other than doing office work, many insurance companies will drop you. They don't like welding, auto work or machine work as a business at your home. They are not happy about welding even if it's a hobby shop.

Zoning and a business license is a big issue and if the city, county or state catches you they will shut you down and keep an eye on you.

It's tricky taking work from the neighbors or local garages, etc. There is always the chance you'll get caught by the "business license police"

As an example, the local town has a law that if a company makes deliveries to businesses in town the company has to buy a business license to do the deliveries.

Carl:

I am outside the city limits and even some of the neighbors down the road have a full blown welding business so i do not have a problem with zoning per say. My shop is a stand alone with its own electric meter so my insurance guy says no problem.

Thanks for the input.

John

John;

Around here small shops are very hot. That is what I am and I'm turning work away.
My shop is in my detached garage behind my house. Drive bys are unaware they are passing a thriving business location.

Keep your activities out of sight. If your shop blends in with the neighborhood you should be fine. The city is aware of my shop and they have laws on the books to make me stop.
But, unless someone complains the city will leave me alone. Had the shop almost 10 years now. If the neighbors see nothing and hear nothing you will be fine.

Don't let anyone tell you manual machining is dead because it is not. Tooling, maintanence & repair parts are high in demand around here. If you start a shop plan to transition into CNC eventually. CNC is a powerful tool you really cannot afford to be without.

Be as diversified as possible and don't try to make money doing just one thing like machining.
Learn about CNC, CAD, CAM and some electrical knowledge for good measure.

Be a trouble shooter and offer good service. Keep your overhead low and your shop rate at a fair level. Be prepared to invest lots of time and make sure your family is okay with all of this. My wife likes the shop because I'm always home and accessable.

Much depends on your personality and your ability to get things done efficiently. I have helped other guys start shops and they fail for a number of reasons. They fail because their heart just isn't in it or they don't give the shop time to mature into a business.

Good luck,
Jim

JOHN1 said:

Is there still a demand , in general, for the one man small manuel well equiped shops.

I know a lot depends on your particular market and how aggressive you are.

I am rettied nut need a better income, love machining/mechanical field and consider myself pretty good, so don't know whether to go looking for a 9-5 job or get the shop really going.

Comments??

John

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I'm in a similar situation, but am lucky enough to have my own product, and in a zone where I'm legal.

I would suggest that you research available work, add up your money to see if you have enough to start something in a legal location, even if you need to rent space. Investing a lot, only to get shut down by the zoning police is a big risk in my book.

Factor in your age, health, personal goals, business acumen, risks, potential income etc. Compare that to what 9-5 jobs are available that you would like and gives you sufficient income.

We don't know enough of all that to advise one way or the other. It can be done either way though. Good luck.

Its what I do, all manual. But I fit in a market for the smaller and sometimes "fancier" parts that not a lot of shops are set up to take on. But I also take on high quantity work when it can make shop rate or close to it, I have it set up to run as fast a manual can go. Cnc would be sweet for some jobs though, but theres so many others shops doing that.

Doing some welding helps too, mostly again smaller things or little fabrications.

So yes, there is demand for it. I know there are other shops doing repair work. Some still don't even use Quick change or DRO's, and yet they're flooded with work. I just think of all the extra $ they'd make if properly equipped.

I know of two home based shops in my residential neighborhood. Neither take in work, but they sell niche products.

The first one makes parts for underwater photography. He has a benchtop CNC lathe and mill. He works with the door open, so I doubt he's worried about zoning or neighbors. His advertising is thru divers magazines.

Next guy makes auto parts. Motor mounts to put chevy engines into foreign cars, special brackets for the "tuner" types, door handles etc. This guy has some VERY serious machinery, automatic cold saw, ironworker, hydraulic benders, two CNC mills, getting a $40,000 CNC lathe. I've seen hundreds of feet of custom Aluminum extrusion in his driveway (but not for long). He sells on ebay, and his website. This is his full time job, and given the way he spends money, he's making a good living, been there for over 10 years, daily UPS pickup.

I'm retired, and so far, I am getting on OK, so I avoid money jobs. I hate other people's deadlines and schedules.

Dave

I'm in the process now of folding up my one-man prototype contract shop. 5 years and 4 months later, no real regrets. But still got about $35K in credit card debt...and the business still burns about $2500/month just sitting...but I own the equipment now (which is a nice thing, otherwise it would be about $4K/month burn rate!), which I'll keep to continue a very small product line. I learned a trade pretty intimately and I like machining, but I recently landed an engineering position that's a "dream" job and pays nicely! So, no tears

If you can't sell yourself properly, or can't multitask, or if you're hard to self-motivate, and if you aren't money-oriented...then you'd probably end up in the position I eventually ended up in. I did way too many jobs under their value to "land" contacts and goodwill...and rarely was that effort reciprocated with continuous work. I had a sales rep., but himself and his customers obvious trend of "shopping" for lowest price shop was demoralizing, and a big time waster in quoting...and most of the these jokers want 3 day turnarounds, but they will pay you in 75-90 days. BEWARE of them.

I did a review of my business model at the 4.5 year point, and realized I was lopsided in my goals. I was still a 75/25 split in contract machine work, to contract design work....with 50% of all my sales with one company. And that trend never really budged over the years. I found it very difficult to get design work, and sometimes design work is more risky when things don't go right. But it is amazing to think of all the thousands of parts I personally made are floating out there somewhere...it's a nice thought

As a prototype shop working with some big companies, I can tell you my sales are down about 60% from a year ago. I know it's not the trend with a lot of shops out there, but when a Fortune 500 company I worked for (the 50% total revenue stream I mentioned!) clamped the lid down on R&D...it'll most likely trickle down.

I concluded a year ago I was at a crossroads with the notion of either "go big" or "go home". I was 30 years old and I knew the future of contract machining was bleak. So, I decided I didn't want to be 45 or 50 trying to build a new career myself. But, I'm pretty excited about the new job I start soon...and it's a COMPLETELY liberating feeling that soon the stress of being a one-man shop will be gone.

It's hard to break the entrepreneurial spirit, I've never imagined myself working for someone else...but like Cool Hand Luke...mine was/is broken.

I bit the bullet to spend my savings on making my home shop this time last year. My business plan is mainly in-house production of my own products, but I also take on welding, fabrication, and some light machining work from customers. I've hit some snags (two broken toes and subsequent involuntary 2 month vacation), and getting the infrastructure done has taken longer than expected, but things are coming around just in time for me to start school full time on top of trying to pull in some money from the business. I figure now while I'm not very well known is the only time to get a real machinists education; yet another investment in the business as far as I'm concerned. If you can't learn on someone else's dime (working for someone while you make your rookie mistakes), at least break someone else's machines and tooling. Getting more skilled just means higher quality merchandise down the road.

Zoning is fine here, but I did "understate" the nature of the shop as "personal use" when I was going through acquiring permits (that still raised eyebrows as 840sq feet is a lot of space for an "artist studio" - I claimed I made big sculptures ). I'm completely legit in my operations, but I didn't want any excess red tape to delay ground breaking (I had 90 days before winter to complete the shell and I built the shop myself). Having worked for profit (numerous customers right now), I'm grandfathered into the code if the pissy neighbors I upset with my "huge" garage get their way and further tighten the noose on what's permissible (we used to be able to do 1400sq ft in a single room, but now we're limited to 1000 for Utility space). Having said that, I concur that you want to keep your nose down when you're getting things under way. The last thing you want is a "stop work" order while the govt folks follow due process on complaints. I actually got a rude awakening the day I was supposed to be raising a 35x11' wall with 13 helpers already scheduled to arrive that evening. One of my neighbors called to complain that my walls were over my houses roof and the trusses weren't even up yet. Well, two walls weren't even up yet and I had to have the head of city planning come out to visually verify what I had constructed matched the prints that were signed off. Fortunately, that incident only resulted in a 2.5hr delay, but it could've been worse - what if the guy who had to verify was on vacation. You never know who's watching you, and what they're telling people with the ability to make things difficult.

We're limited to 2 customers on site per day, but deliveries aren't considered part of that regulation. We have limits on what size of signs we can display for the business, but I don't do walk-in's anyway and as such I don't want drive by business (seems like it would be disruptive to a normal family life).

Keep your neighbors in mind when you build your shop. I blocked the view out the sun room of one of my neighbors, but that was unavoidable (the wife hates me, and the husband helped raise 2 walls). I did go to extensive measures to ensure sound proofing and I think that has paid off as we have yet to get any mention of noise issues, and one neighbor told me he's never heard me working (they keep their windows open all summer).

You would think that the fishing and shrimp boats out of Shreveport, LA would need a good machine shop for repairs of there gear.

I have been doing it now for about a month and a half. So far I have grossed double what I would have if I was still fixing welders. And I am only working a couple days a week. And I save money on gas!

I was lucky to find a good customer who isnt cheap and pays pretty promptly. Only problem is the customer is wrapping up production on the current project and probably wont be starting the next until they see how well this one does at the box office.

Not sure how to find more customers. This is all new to me. Lucky for me everything is paid for so there is no cost for things just sitting there. I managed to accumulate most of everything i have in the past year and a half or so.

I have a manual lathe and a cnc knee mill, all of my work has been on the mill though. I cant imagine doing all the stuff I am on a manual mill. My profit and quick turn around time which they are very happy about would cease to be. I can do programs for multiple parts in less than an hour and pop the parts out pretty fast. Would be nice to have a tool changer but it will speed up a but once I get a power drawbar.

Jim Shaper said:

Zoning is fine here, but I did "understate" the nature of the shop

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I may have "understate" the nature of my shop when going thru zoning. I pulled a permit for an internet based business. I told them that I do 3D cad/cam modelling and verifaction of machine tool path(well there is only one way I know of to verify if you program right, that make a part). I told them that all business was done over the internet. Which I do send bills, invoicing and quoting so...I did not lie. I was granted a 24/7 permit to operate. My shop is in my basement so there is no noise.

"You would think that the fishing and shrimp boats out of Shreveport, LA would need a good machine shop for repairs of there gear."?


I'd think that the cowboys & truckers out of Shreveport, LA would need a good bit of work on their pickup trucks.

For a one-man shop, trying to be a build-to-print machine shop in the classic sense is a tough battle. You might be able to make it work if you're lucky enough to find a couple of big sugar daddy customers. But that's very risky. Here in the 21st century, it's so easy to find alternate sources and work over long distances. For a big company purchasing agent who's under heat to save every penny, there's very little loyalty. If they can find some sucker who'll do it cheaper for acceptable quality, they'll jump suppliers in a minute. That's just the way the world is now.

In my opinion, there are several keys to building up a successful one-man business:

First, become really, really specialized. Find a narrow niche and build up your expertise and reputation in that area, so that you become the "only" guy to go to in the US when someone needs that product or service. Concentrate your business around a narrow product, rather than trying to be the "I can build anything you need" guy. The product can be a packaged service, for example, rebuilding starter motors for early Jeeps. Or offering special ruggedized starter motors for early Jeeps. It should be something that's easy to describe and define. The point is that you want to become the world's expert on early Jeep starter motors. That narrow group of people who need one will search you out.

Second, forget the local market and concentrate on the whole US. There are probably only a few people in your town who need an early Jeep starter motor, but in the whole US, there are enough to keep you busy for many years. Don't waste your effort with a sign out front or an ad in the local Yellow Pages. List a couple of your super starter motors on ebay, and get the word out on some Jeep forums. You want your business to be almost all mail order.

Third, the optimal product for a one man shop is something small enough that it's easy to ship cross country, and is in a price range of, say, $200 to $1000 each. Yes, you can build a business selling $10 products by mail order, but you have to think about how many you'd have to sell per month, and how much effort it would be to deal with that many individual customers and shipments. A $200 product is about the minimum that's worth the effort to transact the sale and ship the product. A $500 product that ships in a small box is even better. A $10,000 product gets dangerous for a one-man shop. The gap between sales gets longer and more uncertain, and the risk is much higher if there's a screw-up or delay. Ideally, you want a product of complexity/cost that you can build and sell 10 per month. That spreads out the risk, but keeps enough flow going that you get some manufacturing efficiency.

Anyway, these are just some things to think about.

Bruce Johnson said:

For a one-man shop, trying to be a build-to-print machine shop in the classic sense is a tough battle. You might be able to make it work if you're lucky enough to find a couple of big sugar daddy customers. But that's very risky. Here in the 21st century, it's so easy to find alternate sources and work over long distances. For a big company purchasing agent who's under heat to save every penny, there's very little loyalty. If they can find some sucker who'll do it cheaper for acceptable quality, they'll jump suppliers in a minute. That's just the way the world is now.

In my opinion, there are several keys to building up a successful one-man business:

First, become really, really specialized. Find a narrow niche and build up your expertise and reputation in that area, so that you become the "only" guy to go to in the US when someone needs that product or service. Concentrate your business around a narrow product, rather than trying to be the "I can build anything you need" guy. The product can be a packaged service, for example, rebuilding starter motors for early Jeeps. Or offering special ruggedized starter motors for early Jeeps. It should be something that's easy to describe and define. The point is that you want to become the world's expert on early Jeep starter motors. That narrow group of people who need one will search you out.

Second, forget the local market and concentrate on the whole US. There are probably only a few people in your town who need an early Jeep starter motor, but in the whole US, there are enough to keep you busy for many years. Don't waste your effort with a sign out front or an ad in the local Yellow Pages. List a couple of your super starter motors on ebay, and get the word out on some Jeep forums. You want your business to be almost all mail order.

Third, the optimal product for a one man shop is something small enough that it's easy to ship cross country, and is in a price range of, say, $200 to $1000 each. Yes, you can build a business selling $10 products by mail order, but you have to think about how many you'd have to sell per month, and how much effort it would be to deal with that many individual customers and shipments. A $200 product is about the minimum that's worth the effort to transact the sale and ship the product. A $500 product that ships in a small box is even better. A $10,000 product gets dangerous for a one-man shop. The gap between sales gets longer and more uncertain, and the risk is much higher if there's a screw-up or delay. Ideally, you want a product of complexity/cost that you can build and sell 10 per month. That spreads out the risk, but keeps enough flow going that you get some manufacturing efficiency.

Anyway, these are just some things to think about.

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These are good points Bruce. For us old fart retired guys it might take too long to build the necessary skills and reputation. At least with the internet approach that makes things move faster.

When we build a shop here, we just decide where and what to build, and the county assesor will show up within a few years to add it to the tax roles. No hard feelings. No inspectors for the most part. As long as we don't start working with plutonium or something nobody cares what we do. Our business license is our permit to run a business.

Although county services are almost non-existant other than roads, elections, etc. taxes are laughably low and so are hassles. I know it would drive some good folks crazy, but to me a small shop in an area like this is a wonderfull lifestyle.....Joe

Joe D Grinder said:

When we build a shop here, we just decide where and what to build, and the county assesor will show up within a few years to add it to the tax roles. No hard feelings. No inspectors for the most part. As long as we don't start working with plutonium or something nobody cares what we do. Our business license is our permit to run a business.

Although county services are almost non-existant other than roads, elections, etc. taxes are laughably low and so are hassles. I know it would drive some good folks crazy, but to me a small shop in an area like this is a wonderfull lifestyle.....Joe

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When I had the moving bug a couple years ago, I seriously thought about that area. I used to live in Alamogordo and like the area. Hard to give up Florida though.

Bruce, some of the stuff I make is actually under cutting ebay sellers because I am local and there is no shipping - I under cut them by about 5 bucks and have people beating down my door (figuratively). But in truth I make about $10 more per sale than they would (paypal fees, actual shipping expense, and time/materials to package). Not being "some guy on ebay" is working to my advantage and I'm moving prices north of ebayers on repeat business with no loss of sales. Once you become a "known quantity" you can almost set your own price. There will always be the guys who won't spend a penny more than harbor freight sells it for, but those aren't the customers you want to serve unless you're willing to work for $11 a day like the chinese guy you're competing with. Unless I can make something roughly at shop rate, I won't. There's more than a couple people I've told to buy from the competition. Like Macona, my machines are all paid for, so I don't need to slave over something just for a couple bucks to put towards the overhead.

As fuel costs continue to rise, and shipping gets more expensive, being local to your clientele becomes favorable for a specialty manufacturer. Every penny you spend on postage is calculated into the total cost equation by the customer. So if you can cut out the delivery boy, it means more money in your pocket with no perceivable increase in price to your customer.

I live in a metro with about 4.5 million residents, so my local market is of formidable size.