Workflow and shop layout

I know this has been discussed in other threads, but I haven't seen any that rationalized the reasoning for the placement of their machines.

Since I'm not thrilled with the current location of my machines (primarily due to them being placed for ease of working around them while hanging sheetrock and wiring, etc), I'm curious to see other's shops and how you have the machines configured to make optimal use of the space and ease of processing work through them.

I'm also aware of the Grizzly shop organizer software, but haven't been diligent enough to try working with that due to the volume of crap I currently need to locate.

Hopefully this thread could become a one-stop resource for those trying to make more of the finite space they've got to work with.

Did anyone do a scale layout diagram to pre-organize, or do you park things in a spot and then see how it works out with it there?

An autocad drawing of the floor, columns, electrical, pneumatics, etc is essential, imho. Make a block of each machine, and any other equipment (carts, tables, cabinets, etc).
The thing to remember and try to do, is FIFO (First in-First out). You want the shop organized so raw material comes in one end, finished parts out the other.
It helps to do a matrix for your most common processes, so you aren't back-tracking the process with parts, for the most part.

Also remember the 36" OSHA rule. _ANY_ electrical cabinet, or equipment access door must have a minimum of 36" clearance directly in font of it. Also remember that at some point you have to get the chip conveyors out from under the machine for cleaning, you will have to replace motors, ballscrews, etc, so clearance is a must.

Since I do a mix of custom one-offs, repairs, and at the moment very little production "parts" - my layout needs don't lend well to FIFO. A batch of 50 would be a high volume of a single item for me. In fact, if I make 50 manifolds in a year, I'll be thrilled (especially with the economy where it is). At the same time, I'm aware that the nature of my customer base will change over time and I won't intentionally build in bottlenecks in the process progression.

I'm more interested in how so many of us little guys get so much crap into their shops and how and why others have things situated where they do (50% of those responding in the how big is your shop thread are one man operations).

Grizzly has a layout tool for organizing your space on their website. I've never taken the time to build out my space on there, but I will before I get to playing musical chairs with my 3000#+ machines.

Like I said, I'm mainly interested in seeing what solution others have come to for the problem most of us face - 10lbs of crap in a 5lb bag.

I have no concern with OSHA. My bridge crane violates their rules (6" clearance to any immobile object - my lights are 1.5" above the bridge) and there's not a damn thing they can do about it. They have "no jurisdiction" as I have no employees.

Jim, since you're hanging sheetrock I'm guessing you're a little guy. I've had to do this a couple of times with small job shop(s).

Tony is a big guy, but a lot of what he says is very valid. An electrical cabinet that won't open is a giant pain in the ass, and its even worse when trying to slide a ballscrew out of the back of the machine, and the wall is in the way(nevermind trying to squeeze your fat ass in there[mine anyways]).

The first time I had to do it, moving into a shop, printed out a simple floor plan and another sheet with all the machines. Cut out the machines, put them on the floor plan and started moving them around. Worked out pretty good.

The philosophy I went with then and the philosophy I went with in the shop I'm at now is the "cell" mentality. Not so much the flow of a single product, but the fact that I can go from machine to machine easily, a central workbench and a deburr area (drill press, metal finishing wheel, little belt sander). Enough room to wheel in carts with material, but not be crowded.

Think about what you are going to be doing and how to make that the easiest/closest. You may not get the WWII pretty nice neat rows of lathes and mills but you will get a lot more done.

That's actually precisely why I started this thread. Right now my lathe is on one wall, the vertical mill is on the opposite, and my horizontal is in a corner all its own with my welders and a bench grinder between it and the lathe.

I'm a pragmatic little guy. Someone gave me a bid for 40K for my shop exterior finished with bare studs and no electrical, so I finished the whole thing for 25K contracting only the slab.

I'm not going to box in access panels, but at the same time, I don't need excess space around everything like OSHA wants. I can't very well cut my fingers off on the bridge beam while maneuvering a load with the crane at the same time, so I don't think much of their regulations for regulations sake. If it makes sense to follow, then I follow it. I'm also not concerned about losing any limbs with my open flat belt driven drill press - OSHA would have me boxing that sucker up for fear of killing someone.

Having the crane means I don't need access for a die cart, but it also limits my ability to do ceiling drops for electrical. I have more circuits and outlets in this joint than some people have in their houses, so that's not much of an issue. I think the longest distance between any two outlets is something like 4' with the exception of the 11' wide main doorway. I also have the 3ph hardwired into the walls, so I don't have cords everywhere for the machines either.

How do you guys have your mill and lathe positioned relative to each other? Other than backing the mill into a corner, what's a good way to deal with the amount of floor space they occupy due to their odd shape?

When I was dreaming up my space, I had an idea of how I might situate things, but now that I'm using them I'm finding that it's not as efficient use of sq footage as I would like. For instance, the lathe is in the spot it was originally intended to occupy, but now I realize that there's a good 20sq ft of unusable space behind it that does nothing but collect chips and swarf. Moving it into the room, perhaps opposite the mill would mitigate the access problem to the space behind the machine, while retaining access to the back of the spindle for longer bar stock.

If a machine goes down, I can pick it with the crane to position it for repairs. There's nothing that limits my every-day configuration to facilitate maintenance.

Jim,
The 36" clearance for electrical is not just an OSHA thing, it's an NEC regulation carried over to OSHA. Your insurance company may not be very happy if you violate that (Just something to consider.......).
Yes, I'm a big guy, but I have to squeeze 100 lb of crap into a 5 lb bag, _and_ stay within the regs. It's not so much OSHA that drives it as it is our insurance company. They inspect us a lot more often than OSHA does.
As for cells, 36" between machines is about the minimum one can comfortably move around in and even at that you can be banging your elbows against the sheet metal, but it will work. If you do a lot of first/second op work between the lathe and mill, I'd have them facing each other, 5' apart, with a 1' table in front and against each one. Gives you 3' to walk through, and somewhere to set raw/finished parts when you are swapping parts in the machines and about 1-1/2 steps between machines - Just enough room to turn around comfortably.
Some things, even with 1-off parts, you know will happen, like a tumbler for deburring, and a table for final inspection / packaging.
You want to minimize the number of steps you take from operation to operation for efficiency reasons. Plus, you won't have to buy as many anti-fatigue mats.
For a 1 man shop, I'd shoot for a U shaped aisle, or a single straight aisle, with machines on both sides, depending on shop width/length and machine sizes.
Saw/lathe/mill/deburr/inspect/ship

I'll throw in here, with a few disclaimers first:
1- I do several different things for a living, simultaneously, all part-time, and my machines are in support of them (I rig/fly live performers, I do sound system installation/repair climbing/rigging, I build motorcycles, I do time-and-materials fabrication to customer specs, and all of my personal hobbies involve machining and/or welding).
2- my shop is way undersized considering the number of varied ops and processes needed.
3- a goodly portion of my work is field work.
4- I spend a disproportionate amount of time (wasted time, I might add) moving crap around, or dragging things like my chopsaw outside to do some of my work.
5- 99.5% of my work is onesy-twosies

All that said, I have 25lbs of crap in a 5lb bag, and on a good day have just enough room to stand in front of a machine, and constantly bang knees, shins, elbows etc and am constantly struggling to find places to store materials and tooling, to say nothing about accessing them when needed. I fit things in as best I can, and it actually saves me from bringing home new machines until I've very carefully considered whether the added bonus of a new machine will outweigh the hassle of fitting it in
It's frustrating, it's time wasting, but it's mine, and over time, it'll grow, and I wouldn't trade a second of it to go back to a 40/hr a week gig, even at 3x the money...

I did end up using the Grizzly application and played with the layout a bit last night. I'm not about to stack machines on top of one another, and my electrical panel will never be buried - that's not the issue. The issue is how to make goofy shaped machines not use up so much space without parking them side to side back to back. I'm also concerned about functional proximity's to account not only for travels, but for space for me to run the dials when at max travel. I know I won't be able to do it all up on paper and get it perfect, but I can get an idea. What I'm looking for here is an idea, from your ideas, on how you've solved the same problem. So far, while trying to be helpful with the concepts, no one has posted pics of how they've done it. If you did use paper, I'd love to see scans or whatever of what you came up with, and how it's worked or failed for you. That's what I'm trying to get at here.

You'd think with all the consultants that hound this place, someone would have some stock photos of usable configurations. lol

I've got a lot of room to work with, and part of that is the problem. If I make an isle of two rows, there's 15' between workstations. If I park either of the mills in the middle of the floor, it blocks my path to the back room (paint and powdercoat) and creates a narrow isle against a wall that has to occupy my welders (due to the 100A sub panel location). Part of the problem is that my horizontal mill is 7' deep. Since that has power feeds, and primarily would be used with them, I'm not so concerned about putting it in a corner, but it's so long that it would use up a lot of side space that could otherwise locate shelving. This is the kind of stuff you can't plan out on paper, so I'm seeking real world advice.

77,

I couldn't have said it any better, although I do not do much machining in my shop for a living. (main job is engineering analysis and jurisdictional certification of lifting equipment).

J. Shaper, advice was given earlier on how shop lay-out is done. In the 'olden' days we used mylar sheets with a 1/4" grid, and the lay-out scale was typically 1/4" = 1 ft full size. Now one can get software to help.

Machinery, equipment, assemblies, etc. waere cut-out from bits of cardboard and taped to this mylar sheet. For a milling machine make the cut-outs the size with the table extended fully in either direction. Access between machinery and equipment was eyeballed, using the grid squares.

This is the method I used to plan my 13' x 14' workshop, which contains:

10" lathe, 6" x 20" horizontal/vertical mill, 32" x 72" work bench, 9" x 20" vertical mill, 12" vertical bandsaw, atlas 7" shaper, small gear hobber, air compressor, 2 roller tool cabinets, one with tool box on top the other with the drill press, 16" x 32" storage rack, 24" x 36" material storage cabinet, 20 drawer cheque cabinet, 24 drawer small tool storage cabinet on shelf in 16" x 32" rack.

Tig welder is in the garage, as is additional material storage. Electrical equipment and bench is in the furnace room.

The lathe is in the centre of the room and faces the work bench located on one long wall, window above. There is 32" between lathe and bench with a good fatigue mat between. Mills, hobber, saw, are along the wall behind the lathe. Cabinet beside the lathe facing bench, other cabinets beside the work bench. One end wall has the storage rack and the shaper.

Three walls are utilized here, the fourth is the entrance, and the entrance to my 8' x 9' office. If I get any more stuff I would have to knock out the wall to the laundry/furnace room. This would be a project in itself as the dividing wall is the bearing wall for the main floor (no central beam or posts).

It took some time using the planning method described but everything fitted; it is quite comfortable for two friends to work alongside simultaneously.

The key is the lathe in the middle, vertical mill in the far corner, the rest as described. There is a complete path around the lathe, so if there is an obstruction in one "aisle" you go the other way. The horizontal mill has access to the back for belt/speed changes.

Agreed it is a small shop, but it is MY shop.

Arminius

Jim,
I can't post any of my layouts or photos, would get me fired first thing in the morning. I can take a look at whatever layout you have or come up with and make suggestions though. If I had software here at home I could help you out with the layout, but I don't yet, hopefully within the month though.
I do a lot of plant layouts. Because of customer changes / product changes, seems we wind up moving half the equipment about every 2 years or so.

Tony, that's not really needed from a plant perspective (at least not by me). If I were doing multiple workstations for multiple employees, this task would be entirely different.

What I was really hoping for was seeing some images of ways of getting multiple goofy shaped machines cohabitating with the least possible unused/unusable wasted space.

Check out the grizzly application:
http://grizzly.com/workshopplanner.aspx

Making an account is nothing more than an email address and a password (no confirmation of the address, so it could even be fake to avoid sales emails). Another thing I like about the application is that you can change the dimensions of the stock equipment they sell to match your machine dimensions.

The more I play with it, the more open my thinking for the general orientation of the machines and space. There are the givens as far as where the welders and plasma cutter plug in, but otherwise I have a pretty open slate and just need to get better numbers for the dimensions of the machines and my roll cabs (I have 3 of them, and a tool cart). Another mental block is that I still need space for the plasma table (cnc) and a rather large horizontal bandsaw I've yet to complete building, so in my head I'm constantly bothered by not having room for those when locating the machines that currently exist.

I guess I just need to go hit more shop photos.

"do a scale layout diagram to pre-organize, or do you park things in a spot and then see how it works out with it there?"

Yes, a simple paper floor plan, cut out scale machines.

Lot of pushing little paper bits around

Then took chalk and outlined the machines on the floor.

Pushed more paper around

Finally, set machines , little tweaking, all is well. Then wired.

Ended up with machines (thin= lathes, etc)against the outer walls with the center row being the mills. Best way to allow space for the overarms etc.

Shifted the mills off center in the room towards the front of the mills so when the overarms are pushed back I won't brain myself on them.(At least that's the plan)

Turned the mills an an angle to prevent the tables from hitting each other when fully moved. Also this helps because it tends to make the mills floor pattern a square, think of a X.

First thing to do is generate an accurate floor plan of each piece of equipment, including ancillary equipment associated with it.

Job shops may differ in design from a production shop. In a production shop there are generally job-specific machines set up to allow material to flow from one process to the next. "In one door - out the other" as previously mentioned.

Job shops require access to any machine at any given time. That machine also has to be located in a manner that doesn't affect it's operation.

Sometimes things that may seem crude in a production shop are quite effective in a job shop. For example I have one wall that has several pieces of equipment that appear to be too close to each other to use. A bandsaw, a 16" abrasive saw, a 65 Ton Ironworker, a table saw, and a 24" shaper. Other than the shaper, each machine has either a hook for the crane or is setting on a steel skid. At a moments notice it can be moved to the center of the room and a few roller stands put into place. Generally the shaper will be used on short pieces but if I needed to run a long part I can move the adjacent machines out of the way.

An inexpensive 5000# pallet jack makes it easy and quick.

My lathes are "back to back". That allows me to run both machines at once while staying at both controls. (I know that will catch flames but I can't afford to set on one machine to watch long cuts). All of the lathes and mills have room to run long material although doing so may block access to another machine. Oh Well ----- some sacrifices have to be made in a small shop and it really isn't that often that I need to handle long stuff out the headstock. Point is, I can if I need to.

The fab table has a hole in the center for an eye bolt. Sometimes it gets moved over for floor fab space. The tubing bender is bolted to the floor when used and pushed against the wall when it isn't.

Machines like the brakes, lathes, mills, drill presses that require leveling and secure mounting are installed permanently. Anything that can be moved is. The little bit of time required to get a machine out in the open where it is easy to use is worth it once you have tried to use that machine in a cramped, handcuffed area.

Any machine that is used daily and pays bills has a dedicated spot. Occasional use machines don't merit that luxury.

Luckily you have a bridge crane. Towmotors are a real hassle to maneuver in a small shop.

My shop is 40 x 64 with a 12 foot ceiling. It is full of machinery and I still manage to pull the Bobcat and pickup in most nights.

SCOTTIE

I spent 6 hours searching the shop photos last night and found most had broken links.

I have a feeling I'm just going to have to play musical chairs once I get the bridge beam up and the crane functional. It's precisely what I'd rather not do with the 4700# horizontal (since it's just over my crane's design load, but well under the safety factor).

I think it would be different if my lathe was shorter. The horizontal is 7' front to back, and the lathe is 8'6 long. If you park either of those together, it uses up a tremendous about of space. So what I'm finding when I take my drawings out to the shop is that the machines location isn't so far off right now, but I need to move the two mills together and possibly just flip flop which of them is put in the corner. The controls on the horizontal actually work well for shoving it in the corner my excello is in right now. As long as I leave enough room for x travel, I don't need immediate access to that side of it.

Jim

My basic shop space is about 17 ft by 26 ft with a 8 by 8 (ish) dirty shop for the grinders & blaster at one end with open door way access. Bit next to the dirty shop is a separate shed.

Main shop has 9 x 9 office section at the front, 7 x 7 (ish) bench and hand tool work area next to it with a 9 x 17 clear section behind both. Single side OSB on 4 x 2 partition walling between sections, office bit fully enclosed with folding door (to save opening space). Exposed 4 x 2 great for shelving, OSB sides carry cabinets , drawers shelves as appropriate. 8 ft ceilings with 5 ft 6 shelves all round 'cept for windows & door space. Two cross wise lifting beams & 3 ton travellers where the office and hand work area partitions run.

Big back section has the small bench top CNC, hydraulic press, SB Heavy 10 lathe running round the U shape behind the partion back of the hand work bench. Then its access to the dirty shop Pollard 15 AY drill next (big chappie), Bridgeport canterwise across the corner then single side door and Elliott 10 M shaper. Down the wall side of the aisle are Rapidor hacksaw, P&W lathe sitting between the lifting beams so I can shift it if if needful, falling bandsaw on wheels, upright bandsaw, mitre saw and table saw on "parked" mounts. I try not to do woodwork in the shop. Electric cabinet & cleaning gear stash in the corner and double entrance door on the front side. Plenty of shelf & cupboard space. All my benches sit on cut down 4 drawer filing cabinets, several rapidly knocked up to fit the space cabinets made from redundant kitchen stuff. I hate dirt kit and trying to keep open shelves clean.

About 50 power points in 4 light duty e.g. hand tool rings and 4 machine power rings plus inverter supplied 3 phase.

And a loft for storage with lift-up and hang on hook ladder access to trap in back section so its just off central.

HTH.

Clive